Post on the LL Page about the planed Age Verification System
Age Verification? How about infringing on personal rights!
The old system is working just fine, as the Lindens themselves have stated in their blog
Second Life has always been restricted to those over 18. All Residents personally assert their age on registration. When we receive reports of underage Residents in Second Life, we close their account until they provide us with proof of age. This system works well, but as the community grows and the attractions of Second Life become more widely known, we’ve decided to add an additional layer of protection. [2nd paragraph of the blog issued Friday, May 4th, 2007 at 4:25 PM PDT by: daniellinden] ) then why change it? There are currently 6,110,447 residents of the Adult grid as of 5:55 pm on May 5, 2007.
I think with over 6 million residents, they would have perfected the method they have used this entire time.
I personally, as a person who values her privacy and safety in RL do NOT feel comfortable giving my address to a person I have never met to be held for an underterminable amount of time until they can verify it. Also, in case you are not aware, it is against the law to use the United States Social Security Number in an identification purpose. So, I will not be giving ANY part of my number to ANYONE! And I also have a valid point, how will the last four digits of my number verify my age in any way. I remember agreeing to a contract when I started this game. That I was at least 18 years of age. Therefore, that should be enough. SL will NOT be held accountable for anything that should happen to a minor illegally on the adult grid, because those same minors agreed to that contract and therefore created a breach of contract from the start.
I have given my credit card number, it is on file. I’ve even given my personal cell phone number, so that was or is on file. And personally, after the whole password fiasco where EVERYONE’S passwords were changed because of a hacker getting into the database, I have lost my faith in SL’s ability to keep my personal information a secret. Even if they do not hold it, how do we give it to this third party. I’m sure it is by giving it in game somehow. Or in some way using the LL as a middle man. Which means, they will still have that personal information on file, even if it’s only for a few moments.
Therefore, in closing to my numerous rants and raves, I am starting a petition.
We, the people who make this game a success, who pay these same people with our hard earned money, were not asked our opinion. We were not given a choice in this. And if we “choose” not to give this information, most of SL will be restricted to us. That is not fair. We accepted that contract, therefore, I expect our rights to not be infringed.
If you agree with me, please, add your SL Nick to the comments. Thank you!
Adara Vilas
KeikoYanai Yue
Comment by Kei — May 6, 2007 @ 1:45 am
Fuckin aye. This crock would put me out of business if it went through.
Comment by Sven Okonomi — May 6, 2007 @ 1:47 am
I wholeheartedly agree.
Comment by Hyacinth Hird — May 6, 2007 @ 1:50 am
you charged my credit card twice and i never recieved any Ls yet told me you wont accept it now you want me to trust your judgment on the security of my personal info?
Comment by Lilbit Benetto — May 6, 2007 @ 2:05 am
>.
Comment by Nekovnia Mistral — May 6, 2007 @ 3:00 am
As a non-US resident I will probably have to provide passport details. Definitely not happening so it might be goodbye to SL for me if they go ahead with this.
Comment by Sexy Reddevil — May 6, 2007 @ 3:17 am
For 3 years cc # was enough age verification for them and it is enough for every porn site on the internet. Yes some how they need much much more now.
Comment by Tasrill Sieyes — May 6, 2007 @ 4:03 am
No!
Comment by Darian Cardiff — May 6, 2007 @ 4:15 am
NO! This will ruin it for those of us without passport state ID or drivers liscence. CC should be enough
Comment by Kelenae Sansome — May 6, 2007 @ 4:20 am
i agree that should be enough i wouldnt hand my personal imfo to anyone i dont know
Comment by darkangel69 vig — May 6, 2007 @ 5:07 am
agreed!
Comment by K. Coppola — May 6, 2007 @ 5:21 am
the old “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” saying comes to mind ;p
Comment by DarkWolf Halberd — May 6, 2007 @ 7:13 am
Gelvixen Bissell
Comment by Gel — May 6, 2007 @ 8:35 am
Bad Lindenlabs, no treat!
Comment by Darian Cardiff — May 6, 2007 @ 8:51 am
While I can understand the need for an age-verification, the method LL is attempting to use is beyond baffling. It’s an insult to anyone who has paid the Lindens for any kind of service, a mockery to those who have spent REAL money on inworld assets. Not only do they refuse to say who this third party is, they also demand that we PAY an unreasonable amount for a measly check that requires us to reveal far too much of our private info to someone we can’t possibly trust.
Thanks, but no Thanks Linden Retards. Don’t try to push inane nanny measures down our throats.
Comment by Jes Bergbahn — May 6, 2007 @ 10:09 am
I disapprove of the system they want to use, the current one is going just fine! Also, what they are trying to do is going against the USA Consitiuon.
Comment by Quin Boa — May 6, 2007 @ 10:42 am
I say ‘no’ to age verification. I linked SL to my paypal and credit card account and I don’t want it to be linked to my Passport.
Comment by Sieghmund Freund — May 6, 2007 @ 10:51 am
Alucard Abruzzo
Comment by Alucard Abruzzo — May 6, 2007 @ 10:58 am
Proof positive of full intentions FIRST, then you might get my information. Since no proof is forthcoming, has been or likely will be, neither will my identiy information. We have the rights to privacy, and I will not have mine stepped on because of the stupidity of a few.
Comment by samael enigma — May 6, 2007 @ 10:58 am
I agree with some of the comments on the Linden blog: Why aren’t credit card details, or (as in my case) a verified paypal account enough? It’s the accepted way to prove you are 18+ online and it should be no different for SL. If my memory serves me right, I think I had to provide some kind of credit card when I first logged on at the end of 05, where now it’s piss easy for anyone to create a fake hotmail account and link their av to it.
Maybe LL should get back to making residents leave a credit card, and so providing a small, but not insurmountable, barrier to entry. Unfortunately LL is now in the numbers game and trying to up that 5-6 million user figure as quickly as it can, which means making sign-up a hassle free 5 min process no matter who you are. Linked to that it is also increasingly chasing the corporate dollar, and major corporations are very suspectible to pressure groups complaining about them setting up shop in an environment where various ‘unwholesome’ stuff happens. Even more so politicians who are using SL as a testing ground, just check out the hilarity which ensued when it turned out US Presidential candidate John Edwards had built his HQ next to some ads advertising SL porn.
So the ultimate aim here is really to sanitise SL a bit. You estrict the naughty bits to the hard core who are motivated enough to jump through the new hoops, and give the rest a kind of SL a kind of bland ‘coke is it’ type flavour.
Comment by Kirk Nabob — May 6, 2007 @ 11:03 am
I’m well over 18 but don’t have any CreditCard.
I just want my fun @ SL!
Comment by Isaak Cazalet — May 6, 2007 @ 11:06 am
I am way passed “of age” and they already have my credit info through my premium account, Does this mean they want more? They can’t even fix the problems they and griefers create in a reasonable amount of time and they want more? I agree that there should be places above the “mature” status as I also don’t like seeing it every and anywhere that is rated mature but this is overboard.
Comment by Louis Zeevi — May 6, 2007 @ 11:19 am
Me too, i am well over 18. LL have had my credit card info since the day i was born into SL. I’m fine with that, but i would definately not want to give my passport info.
Comment by Anemone Submariner — May 6, 2007 @ 11:33 am
Agreed. Current system is fine.
Comment by Eion Flanagan — May 6, 2007 @ 11:40 am
This reminds me when I couldn’t enter some parcles because they require “Payment Info on File” well I simply didn’t want to give them that because I don’t trust anyone on the internet with any of my payment information.. damn I even buy only Pre-Paid cards for WoW and such.
Also please don’t mention PayPal.
And if this will even force people who have Payment Info on File to give out MORE information.. this is just wrong!
Even though the whole age thing is a joke… they should put an IQ test rather!
Comment by Gale — May 6, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
I concur.
Comment by Timothy Larkin — May 6, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
Whosp at #25 that was me, I just forgot to write my full name
Comment by Gale Kardex — May 6, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
i agree
Comment by Elin McMahon — May 6, 2007 @ 12:46 pm
Wgats next, We all must send a picture ????
Comment by kooky kuhn — May 6, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
hmm perhaps a dna profile next
Comment by rob hofmann — May 6, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
I think its a crock to make more money for them
Comment by rini — May 6, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
I am one of those peeps overseas. I am smart enough to not own a cc. I do not travel therefore do not have a passport. This will affect my being in the game, stopping me from going to areas, but it wont stop people who can bringing out stuff that they dont want minors to see. I can still go to my mistress’s house and have wild sex with her, just not into the club where i work to make my money. Great choice LL, NOT
Comment by VenusJade Bailey — May 6, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
I understand my Nick name should have been sufficient, however not without a few words.
Most of what I am about to say, has already been mentioned.
But every post counts.
I am 24 years old and I am not from the USA, and I don’t have a credit card. And I am not going to file for one either. Why the hell should I, because I am over 18, and because I need to prove that?
So the CC thing people right about is not going to work for me either.
I don’t see why they need any other personal information to verify age, other than the user agreement when you download and start SL for the first time. (It is a contract for pete’s sake)
It is ones own responsibility when you are visiting these establishments in SL. Why do they need this info from someone that goes to adult establishments, why pay for it too. This is why some people visit SL. To do these things without personal risks. If it is personal information they want, here is some of it:
I work my ass off in RL and I am kind and helpfull to everyone, and because I am too damn nice, RL doens’t give me the kicks I need, at this moment that is. Maybe tomorrow I will bump into a beautiful woman who wants to have sex everyday….. (Who am I kidding!)
SL in my opinion was a whole new world, wich was to be developed by the residents, with no restrictions. (other than the regions that were clearly marked PG or MATURE, wich I totally agree with).
If you wanna get rid of the naughty stuff, and force people to do in SL what they are already supposed to do in RL, just pull the plug already, also get rid of the flying and teleporting since mutant behaviour shouldn’t be tolerated either :D
Residents are not supposed to be younger than 18 to be on SL. If LL is affraid of law suits from the minor’s parents, they should consider filing a law suit right back! For breaching a contract.(already mentioned above)
I really, really hate to say this all looks typically political. For example: To make the most and hardest porn in the entire world, and call it dirty and vile the next day.
And indeed what is next…..?
A concerned resident,
Comment by Sedek Straaf — May 6, 2007 @ 1:41 pm
Signed!
Comment by AshleyGold Slade — May 6, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
agree,…..sl without adult content will not be worth it. And giving them any more details than they already have is uthinkable for me too….
So for me that means stop spending money immediately, because if this go through my avatar will be cancellecd anyway….
Sl is not the only virtual world, and if lindenlab wants me to spend my money elsewhere….so be it….
Protect My privacy….don’t give out any more details than necessary.
Amadeo McMillan
Comment by Amadeo Mcmillan — May 6, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
I think Sedek your comment hits the nail on the head. You come here to get the kicks you don’t get from RL. And that’s exactly what LL wants to change.
In RL 95% of us would never be seen dead in places like this because the perception is that they are for seedy, sad and obsessed characters. There’s a social stigma attached to them that doesn’t exist in SL. That will change with a verification system. The privacy issues aside you will actually have to opt-in, or to positively say you want this stuff. It then becomes the equivalent of subscribing to a porn channel on cable.
LL is probably betting that most people won’t bother. It turns SL into a much more mainstream venture, with the naughty bits very much on the fringe, which as a major corporation looking to grow their business is pretty much what they want.
Comment by Kirk Nabob — May 6, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
This is invasion of privacy!
Comment by Newdoll Nikolaidis — May 6, 2007 @ 2:03 pm
I actually believe the ideas they were listing were merely potentials. However, they have our info, and the CC# should be enough, so regardless, the end thesis is correct and I agree wholeheartedly. They don’t need to know any more about me than that I’m old enough and they’re getting my money already because of that. They want more? Well, with any of the data they asking for, I could easily /become/ you. So no, knowing what I do, if they think they’re gettin’ their mitts on that, they’re crazier than I am.
Comment by Charles Milland — May 6, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
you’re right !
Comment by Sanya Bikcin — May 6, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Read Orwell’s 1984 again… !
Comment by Yves Bingyi — May 6, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
I agree that this form of system would damage and endanger its users personal info they make enough money off of us that they do not need to be pulling this kind of stunt i dont give my SSN out to anyone online, ive already paid countless times on SL why should i have to pay anymore just because they are dumbasses?
We read and agreed to a contract those in violation of the contract are responsible for their own actions.
Comment by Blur Wake — May 6, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
As soon as this process will be installed, i will start looking for a alternativ. As many people have stated before - You
got my credit card details already. I will never leave any passport details in the web ! It is enought that countrys i am traveling to already register those details.
Just imagen i travel to the US and they now my avantars name before i enter the country ( or maybe not ) ohoh
So my dear LL´s, thing about it and be sure that Mr. Sonnenblume will leave as soon as you start doing this.
Comment by theo — May 6, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
i agree!!
Comment by Lilly Lalonde — May 6, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo contigo. Bastantes datos privados se dan cuando firmas el contrato para poder jugar.
Comment by Franc Coen — May 6, 2007 @ 4:50 pm
We
Comment by Avery Sicling — May 6, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
Agreed
Comment by Nate Budich — May 6, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
i personally refuse to grant any more than my credit card that i’m already providing and sl already potentially had there database hacked. why would i volunteer more?
Comment by TBA Lardner — May 6, 2007 @ 6:02 pm
A US SSN does not and cannot verify anyone’s age. Why the hell should we pay for the age verification anyway?
Comment by Foxy Sansome — May 6, 2007 @ 6:25 pm
NOT giving LL anymore info than I already have!!
Comment by Josie Quatro — May 6, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
I can not believe that if you present a credit card or your birthday that is not enough. The way things are now I would not trust putting my license number online. They asking for too much and as far as teenagers on here there parents should be more responsible as to what they doing online.
Comment by mystic palowakski — May 6, 2007 @ 7:24 pm
I agree.
Comment by Sekhmet Draken — May 6, 2007 @ 7:27 pm
Say no to Lindens! Say yes to Lasagna!
Uh… yeah, Jes pretty much covered anything meaningful I could add. ^^
Comment by Egi Choche — May 6, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
I’ll stop playing if they start asking for a fee and personal identification!
Comment by Dina Nikolaidis — May 6, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
Seriously, if I want to travel to an adult place, then I will do as I please! Besides, I’m broke so I’d be screwed anyways. This is seriously a bad idea for the creators of whoever is doing this.
Comment by K. Asbrink — May 6, 2007 @ 8:26 pm
There are plenty of better ways of doing it.
Comment by C. Henslin — May 6, 2007 @ 8:33 pm
No Age Verification!
Comment by Rith Valiant — May 6, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
What is needed to say is already said in many sites. The summary is: the age verification is pointless.
Comment by Shakeno Tomsen — May 6, 2007 @ 9:01 pm
I have spent several hundred dollars in SL; I have provided information, I have jumped through hoop after hoop.
This is going too far.
Comment by Coyote Momiji — May 6, 2007 @ 9:01 pm
they must spend time to fix problem not add others
Comment by P. Marchese — May 6, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
Agreed, I will refuse to play Second Life if that happen and refuse to pay for anything.
Comment by Jakkar Carlos — May 6, 2007 @ 9:03 pm
If it is not broke why fix it. Leave as is.
Comment by vlay gynoid — May 6, 2007 @ 9:05 pm
Leave it as is! D:
Comment by Lil Maltz — May 6, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
I simply do not want my information given to a third party. I try and avoid giving out my information as much as possible, and would quit the game before I would consider allowing it out there. For those of us who have had a stalker, you forcing us to put information out there and passing it along to others scares me.
Comment by Cordi Biddle — May 6, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
Leave it as is
Comment by Tursi Sinatra — May 6, 2007 @ 9:09 pm
I personally agree with the whole “protecting privacy thing” I mean, people getting a hold of my social securty number after they have my credit card info? its bad bad bad….
Comment by Keys Zhukovsky — May 6, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
After all the hard work i’ve put into my AV and not counting the money i’ve spent in this game, this is deffinatly going way over the line, the lindens always find some way to make things worse.
Comment by Artan Coen — May 6, 2007 @ 9:12 pm
Signed
Comment by FoxSan Yosuke — May 6, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
I wholeheartedly support any motion to deny the new verification measures. They are draconian at best, a security disaster in the wings at the worst.
Comment by Selkit Diller — May 6, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
i feel pretty pissed with this age thing. i dont feel comfortable giving out hard ID to a 3rd party group. they should trust the residents and if one is found to be underage then shift ehm. Kids are very easy to noyice in second life anyways.
Comment by Flamin Cannonball — May 6, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
I think CC is good enough,i mean,who would REALLY give there SSN to someone,who they dont know AT ALL,and a THIRD PARTY,im not going to go with this!!!
Comment by Tyler — May 6, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
I agree with you….i’m not feeling secure with LL security on their database,plus..CC should be enough for verefy age….and i have the risk my CC info was hacked already….. -.-;
Comment by Dael Kamloops — May 6, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
I agree with you….i’m not feeling secure with LL security on their database,plus..CC should be enough for verefy age….and we had the risk the CCs info was hacked already….. -.-; so i’m not giving personal info plus i love my anymous status in SL :)
Comment by Dael Kamloops — May 6, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
hell yeah get LL with there pants down.
do some research and your gunna see LL are breaking a UK and EC law
Comment by chmarr walcott — May 6, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
Despil Korobase
Comment by Despil Korobase — May 6, 2007 @ 9:38 pm
If you own any land, then your account has already been verified. Same with purchasing $L at LindenX. I refuse to release any more personal information to Linden Labs until they can assure that the information will be: 1) Safe from hacking; and 2) Will not be released, sold or otherwise used for any other purpose than what it was intended for.
SunShine Kukulcan
Shadow Dominion
Comment by SunShine Kukulcan — May 6, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
All LL needs to know is that I am a 21 year old male. There is no need for me to prove this by relinquishing personally identifying info that if the password fiasco has proved anything, it’s that they are incapable of properly guarding it against wrongful use. That, and the only reason any company asks for info like this is to sell for extra money, just like those surveys when you buy a product. Ok, perhaps that part doesn’t really apply to things like CC numbers, but they do sell names and ages and stuff, patterns of use if possible… Etc. Losing an account and perhaps a few dollars worth of lindens to ineptness is one thing, losing things like your entire identity… and having such info would make them an extremely tempting target indeed, so don’t think it won’t happen. What will happen is 90% of people will not hand over such info because they don’t want their… outlying interests in SL to have any possible ties to their first life, and will therefore be limited to the non mature areas… Thus ensuring much canceling of accounts will take place, especially among those that pay for it. Meanwhile the mature areas that comprise the vast majority of SL will suddenly be for the most part deserted… Let’s face it, this may be a “social” game but the primary reason most people play it is to yiff/screw/whatever… Furry, human, whatever, doesn’t matter. Sex sells, and SL is no exception. Without that, it’d be pretty pointless. Just a really laggy chatroom… AIM/Yahoo/MSN ftw. -.-;
Comment by Roy Kleiber — May 6, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
Agreed! *signed*
Comment by Theodore Folsom — May 6, 2007 @ 10:00 pm
I wont say much.. but to me this stupid and I dont think that this age verification should be put into motion
Comment by Ryku Ikura — May 6, 2007 @ 10:05 pm
I agree to a certain extent about the age thing, kids should NOT be on here, but charging us to prove our age pft!!! I don’t see what the problem is about at least giving our id # or license # and that is that, as far as Social Security #’s y’all can kiss that one goodbye, uhm can we say Identity Theft?? I think not. But charging for our ages, i think someone *coughLINDENLABScough* is being a bit greedy!!!!!
Comment by Giggsy DeVinna — May 6, 2007 @ 10:08 pm
I like as it is; no security masturbation please! Do not destroy a truly world wide game and fun place for some authority focused security maniacs. This is not an US smalltown!
Comment by Miki Toll — May 6, 2007 @ 10:22 pm
I think they should not have us pay at all for time played on SL, I meen it’s bad enough we got to pay for avitars. So please make it easy on us pour folks and do ntohing on the varification thing.
Comment by Bahamut Feingold — May 6, 2007 @ 10:30 pm
Put a stop to Linden’s Nonsense!
Comment by Jynxi Vacano — May 6, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
Agreed! *signs*
Comment by Harryblacktail Allen — May 6, 2007 @ 11:06 pm
I agree with everything stated above, I work in a mature region. I bust my ass on sl and off! I am 22 that should be good enough. I agree it is to easy for kids to have access. but we should NOT be charged for covering LL ass. It is bad enough we get charged for buying L and then charged again if we cash out. LL is a company who grew to big to fast now they dont know which way is up. LL LISTEN TO THE COSTOMER! What happend to the customer is always right? There are more honist RL ADULTS in sl then not.
PS. there are worse things on the net then a AV. Havent you ever searched anything on yahoo? anything at all? it all comes back to sex. POINT SAID.
Comment by Ruth May — May 6, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
It’s all bullshit. Wanting my SSN to continue to play? it’s not happening. I do not trust Linden Labs with that information. Not after all acounts were hacked and all that bullshit.
Comment by Klein Coage — May 6, 2007 @ 11:11 pm
Leave as it is.
Comment by M. Raymaker — May 6, 2007 @ 11:11 pm
No please.
Comment by AtmanRyu Echegaray — May 6, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
leave it as it is, this faggatory is what the government wants us to do, lock down the net.
THE NET IS FREE, FUCK OFF
Comment by Cause Balut — May 6, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
I agree. LL has no right to ask for this info. Especially the SSN, which is breaking the law to ask for. Just because most companies break this law, doesn’t mean LL has any right to break it. Down with this ID thing. It won’t improve anything anyway.
Comment by Springstar Drinkwater — May 6, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
In full agreement. This is un-needed.This is jusy another part of what could be signs of SL’s down fall though…..
Comment by Matt Reardon — May 6, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
I think the system is good as it is. As is stated in the letter, residents are giving their electronic signiature that they certify they are over 18. Once that’s done, you are no longer at fault if a minor should somehow access it. With that in mind, you, as Linden Labs, have already taken the necessary steps to protect yourselves in that event.
Comment by Taladrian Barnave — May 6, 2007 @ 11:29 pm
I agree fully with you! This isnt right and i hope this work! Giving out social security numbers…are they crazy?!
Comment by Somber Sands — May 6, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
imho its not about protecting kids from adult content. its all about data mining and making money from it.
most people are on sl just for the adult content (take a look at the popular places tab in the search). all these places will die when the visitors will leave sl (and maybe switch to a sl clone without such a filter, its just a question of time until these clones will pop up).
i took a look at the source code of sl and its full of todos, “to fixes” and dirty workarounds. the linden guys should not waste their time with an adult filter, they should rather put their effort into optimizing the client and the engine (which is performing awfully slow and eating more resources than any up to date 3rd person shooter, but looking like games from the last century).
Comment by Zomtec Schnabel — May 6, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
Totally agree…
Comment by Juliet Ceres — May 6, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
If parents can’t control there kids, the rest of everyone should have to open up there whole life and personal info on account of them. I’ll be damned if this goes threw.
Comment by Paul S. — May 6, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
Excellent. I of course have no objections to this petition.
Comment by Deej Lyon — May 7, 2007 @ 12:28 am
Excellent! I of course have no objections to this petition.
Comment by Deej Lyon — May 7, 2007 @ 12:29 am
SIGNED!!!
Comment by Traviss Torok — May 7, 2007 @ 12:33 am
*signs*
My main gripe with it is the charging a fee, reguardless of how much it is…
Granted I’m paranoid about people knowing my personal information that I’ve never met… so I dun like that part either much.
Comment by Karsha Yutani — May 7, 2007 @ 12:51 am
While I agree that something has to be done about removing the underage residents in SL, my problem is why isn’t the CC or Paypal information being used to verify that I am in fact am a Adult? And why is there no alternative methods to prove age (like using Notary Publics to verify your age) for those adults who do not have a CC or paypal?
And why do we all have to risk our personal information that can be used for identity theft just because LL feels the need to cover their asses because of the few Hands-off parents that cannot control their kids(because the TV doesn’t babysit any longer??).. (No offense to you Good parents either!)?
It seems as if LL doesn’t care about the Customer privacy rights or concerns… And to be honest the Customer is just the customer, they’re not always right, but they can effect your business!!!
and I agree with #93… can you say Cash Cow or Cash Grab??
Maybe… we should all boycott SL for one day, a 24 hour day of Not Logging-in (but not on Update Wednesday they’ll figure we just all crashed again..lol)and instead flood LL’s Customer Service department with complaint emails and/or calls. Or maybe just flood the upcoming SL blog posts with links to this petition.
Yes it will hurt business for you for one day, but in the long run it will hurt even more!!
TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS IN SL ABOUT THIS PETITION!!
Comment by Dhampyretta Pessoa — May 7, 2007 @ 12:51 am
Save SL from goig bad…..no to age verification! No need! Get people to work as monitors and have booting abilities!
Comment by Becky Hotger — May 7, 2007 @ 12:58 am
I don’t think I have more to say to this matter, but i’m pretty sure that it will cause a hell of a trouble
Comment by Syah Keiko — May 7, 2007 @ 12:59 am
You all know something? This is our SECOND LIFE… I am pretty sure the last time I checked, my second life didnt have a social security number… uh… I cant fly IRL, I can magically make things IRL, I cant do many things is SL as I can in RL…
So my point? IRL and SL are something that do not mix well or do not mix at all.
Why do we have to pay if we have premium accounts? why do they want us to upgrade to a premium to pay? Why should we pay period???
Giving out SSN is illegal, and by a third party? who’s to say a terrorist isnt in that oraganization, sure, its a little crazy thought, but some of us on here are military and prefer NOT get to our famillies killed and what not… hey? Why should I give my money to credit card fraud…
Lindens, you make SL worse every day? you call this costumer satisphaction??? I would hate to see what it is like when your customers are disatisfied….
Comment by Karnsi Zhongyuan — May 7, 2007 @ 1:17 am
This is another good idea/ bad idea issue. While yes, it will keep those too young to play on the main Second Life server off, I can see it having some less than positive effects.
As of late I’ve been finding myself not trusting much of any of these new ideas from the Lindens.
While I am fine with giving credit card information, I’m sorry, I am -not- going to flash a passport, home address, or driver’s license. This may just be me, but I don’t trust any internet company that far; nor will I ever.
What are you going to want next: a urine sample?
A credit card check should have been more than enough, but that option was taken a way.
I’m going to be honest, there has to be another way to keep the youth of the world blind to what the adults do. This is all about covering ass and nothing much else, as far as I can see it.
This is intrusive and asking too much for something like this. No, no, no.
I know we are only the people who are paying for the service and keeping the Lindex going, but you could actually ask us how we feel about these things first, and maybe discuss options with us.
But given how things are going as of late, that is asking the impossible.
How many people, with more than one avatar, actually pay the silly $9.00 fee? I am going to go out on a limb here and say…next to none. In either case, people who do that are also your paying customers regardless.
Find another way and stop going for all of these easy, dime store, solutions.
Comment by Coel Nemeth — May 7, 2007 @ 1:23 am
We already have CC verification in place, no need to have ID verification as well for premium accounts or any account with CC information included.
This situation is ridiculous and I’m not interested in sharing my RL information!
Comment by Cathy Gray — May 7, 2007 @ 1:23 am
Agreed.
Comment by NickDanger Mills — May 7, 2007 @ 1:24 am
Agreed
Comment by NickDanger Mills — May 7, 2007 @ 1:25 am
I’ve never heard of requiring this kind of information for age verification. It’s intrusive, dangerous, ridiculous and in violation of international law. What about those of us who set up shop in malls that have a mixed content with some adult shops? That cripples our business because -no one- will get the age verification. There is absolutely no reason to require extra payments too. We’re paying enough for sub-par service.
Comment by Amira Graves — May 7, 2007 @ 1:30 am
Ummm as a UK citizen LL want me to give my name, address and passport number to a data mining company in the US who state “political professionals are our customers”.
No.
Comment by Malroy May — May 7, 2007 @ 1:33 am
I agree i dont want my personal info anywere on the web
Comment by Rohen Juran — May 7, 2007 @ 1:39 am
Seems to be a thinly veiled way to capture revenue under the guise of legal/government/”they” as the bad guys. In short, bullshit. The risk of exposure in providing this type of information is high, given the nature of the web. You can go into many adult sites with a simple “yes I am over 18.” Why is SL so different??
Comment by Camille Fride — May 7, 2007 @ 1:54 am
What suddenly makes LL the police force of the Internet? I have paid my premium membership, stated my age, proved it with my credit card. I feel they have enough information about me. They have already stated their policy on age, so let it be. This is an infringement on my basic privacy rights. As an Irish Citzen, the only people I feel safe with having my Revenue Number is the Irish Revenue (and thats at a push LOL). A BIG No to another invasion of privacy.
Comment by Marian Wildcat — May 7, 2007 @ 2:06 am
Agreed! They have been charging my CC for a year and a half, in total more than USD5,000. Why should I have to provide additional information to a company I know absolutely nothing about?
Comment by Analisa Mounier — May 7, 2007 @ 2:25 am
They have my credit card number, why do they need my personal identification number?
It is yet another sad excuse to milk the users.
Shame on you SL!!!
Comment by Junkko Yoshikawa — May 7, 2007 @ 2:33 am
Signed!
I will absolutely not give them this sort of information!
Comment by Innocent Lovell — May 7, 2007 @ 2:40 am
Analisa, find out all about’the company’ here:
http://integrity.aristotle.com/
And, to get a feel for ‘the company’s’ core business consider:
http://www.aristotle.com/home_expand.htm
Comment by Malroy May — May 7, 2007 @ 2:40 am
The best way this can be handled is to have LindenLabs create a printable form containing your avatar name and have the resident take said form to a Notary or other legal representative. The form would only be available to print from the client while logged in. The Notary examines your age proof (birth certificate, drivers license). The Notary then stamps the form and it can be sent back to Linden Labs via whatever method they prefer (fax, mail). This would prevent anyone other than the Notary even seeing the personal information. Linden Labs does not need our information, they should only need legal evidence that we are of age.
My personal stance on it is if Linden Labs does not offer this method, I will not get into Mature areas anymore. Thus eliminating the purchases I have the potential of making at business in those areas. Including my current land rental.
As an aside, Linden Labs is also opening up a major can of worms here. Will sex organ objects now be required to contain age verification statements prior to attaching to an avatar? And what about the ability to cam into areas that are adult in nature? Also, when the change takes place what of the objects I currently own that could be considered adult in nature? Or the land I own/rent in Mature areas?
Final Points:
- The requirement of payment in order for them to cover their asses legally, is absurd.
- Everyone remember.. WE make the content, don’t WE have rights to say who can/can’t access it?
- We apparently are all guilty until proven innocent.
Comment by Blank Cleanslate — May 7, 2007 @ 2:42 am
This is all completely bogus. What is it with this company? I like SL, but suddenly identity is such an issue? I don’t believe it. Some “protective” group must be pressuring the poor Lindens, and they must have the tensile strength of wet cardboard.
Comment by Rowan Jacobus — May 7, 2007 @ 2:44 am
keep it the way it is
Comment by cdnflag independent — May 7, 2007 @ 2:45 am
keep it the way it is, dont change it
Comment by cdnflag independent — May 7, 2007 @ 2:45 am
I vote that linden should cease thier actions
Comment by damascus kamachi — May 7, 2007 @ 2:47 am
*signed*
Comment by Tiberius Thyben — May 7, 2007 @ 2:50 am
I’ve had to deal with cyberstalkers in the real world whom I’ve met online, first.
After acquiring two restraining orders, I’ve decided to no longer meet people in the Real World whom I meet online, first.
Please excuse me if I decide -not- to jump at the chance to provide any MORE real world information to you bastards than I already have. I’ve had to learn to do what I can to protect myself; I’m not about to hand over any additional information to people that I don’t know, have no desire to know, meet, chat with, conduct business with, and above all do not Trust…
I -might- get my paypal information updated (the card that was on it expired a few years ago and I haven’t needed the stupid thing since then so there was no reason to bother updating it). The only reason I haven’t yet is because I’m afraid that I might start charging a lot of garbage to it at SL. However, if this crap concerning the invasion of privacy winds up passing, I’m migrating away from SL along with the rest of the responsible adults whom refuse to give your hackers (or is it you whom are doing the hacking and blaming third parties?). As it looks now, you’re the ones wanting bits of personal information which the federal government has previously deemed that you -don’t- need.
It’d be neat to see who actually -does- send the information in to you people.
My guess is that it will be kids whom use their parents’ credit cards to buy stuff online. They’ll just fill in the blanks with Daddy’s information and keep right on playing in SL; probably the same as some of them are doing now.
Comment by Tatiana Smagulov — May 7, 2007 @ 2:58 am
I am not letting some thirdparty noob company get my passport, and if I gave them, they would not be able to read it anyways.
Comment by Dynamic Drinkwater — May 7, 2007 @ 3:05 am
Opposed to this - don’t trust online databases.
Comment by Insou — May 7, 2007 @ 3:35 am
I have no problem with age verification. And I did that when I signed up. I do not feel comfortable giving my personal info to the makers of a game just to prove what I’ve already sworn to. SL isn’t the only game in town.
Comment by Alyson Tomsen — May 7, 2007 @ 3:51 am
Totaly stupid idea Linden, if this goes ahead you will loose more people than just the lot signing this petition, think about it.
Comment by Imogen Tatham — May 7, 2007 @ 3:55 am
Since when is it everyone’s responsability to take care of a child’s internet safety, shouldnt that rely on its parents?
Comment by Eleine Zabelin — May 7, 2007 @ 4:00 am
Add me to the list of people protesting. Harmony Messmer
Comment by Harmony Messmer — May 7, 2007 @ 4:14 am
Add me to the list!Tyler Mayne
Comment by Tyler Mayne — May 7, 2007 @ 4:31 am
No invasion of privacy!
Comment by Timmahy Widget — May 7, 2007 @ 4:41 am
If this goes through as planned I can promise you all, Lindens and Residents alike, that I personally will do everything I can to beat, break, or otherwise subvert any new age verification system.
And when I do, I will tell everyone how to do it too.
Comment by withheld — May 7, 2007 @ 5:24 am
Signed!
Comment by Debbie — May 7, 2007 @ 5:25 am
The proposition for age verification lacks detail and what information is available suggests surrendering highly sensitive information nobody should be made do give out. I do not support the age verification method in the current proposition
Comment by Maxim Makarov — May 7, 2007 @ 5:28 am
If so…will not be on SL
Comment by randu woodget — May 7, 2007 @ 5:29 am
The real issue is parental control and monitoring children’s internet activities. No program will fix that problem if parents don’t do their part. Why should our privacy be threatened and we have to pay for those who let their children wander free on the internet?
Comment by Dracon Ascot — May 7, 2007 @ 5:29 am
Hear, hear!
Comment by Trix McMillan — May 7, 2007 @ 5:32 am
I agree. this idea is foolishness
Comment by mick majestic — May 7, 2007 @ 5:54 am
This should be covered in the sign-up process, and already is.
Comment by CaitlynAlberic Maa — May 7, 2007 @ 5:57 am
This is just plain Stupid, why bother doing it now if they know it could potentially damage allot of peoples shops or something? plus some people might not be able to change servers back to the main one when they become old enough. i hope they think properly before making the decision!
Comment by Dustin Varun — May 7, 2007 @ 6:25 am
This is just plain Stupid, why bother doing it now if they know it could potentially damage allot of peoples shops or something? plus some people might not be able to change servers back to the main one when they become old enough. i hope they think properly before making the decision! ill vote NO if it becomes a vote
Comment by Dustin Varun — May 7, 2007 @ 6:26 am
Signed!
Comment by Nevaeh Ferraris — May 7, 2007 @ 6:33 am
It is the Moral opbligation of SL to protect underage from comeing into this Game in the first place. I for one came to SL for that protection form the interuding underage and signed the before Contract that I was of age and legal to be in SL.. why shgould we the people now pick up SL’s responsibility and finarual responsibility to gaurd against Underage individuals that are lieing stealing cheating Hacking their way into SL’s legal property, whom will continue to lie cheat steal and hack their way into any security setting anyways. Why should the people Whom SL is realy suposed to be protecting is now being asked to lay their preverbiale heads on the chopping block.
Comment by Shjak Monde — May 7, 2007 @ 7:28 am
I agree.Breach of contract.
Comment by Siddartha Anatine — May 7, 2007 @ 8:10 am
leave it to the parents, of the minors, to stop their kids logging on.theres no way in high heaven that i’m giving anyone my details.actually, the day linden gives me his passprt i’ll consider giving him mine..lol
Comment by ricco boa — May 7, 2007 @ 8:29 am
Kinga Congrejo.
Cause I prefer my fantasies to be safe.
Comment by Kinga Congrejo — May 7, 2007 @ 8:43 am
this is bull, ll needs to get it together, stop being lazy and greedy and implement these measures at signup like they used to do. They wanted to get a bunch of ppl in sl so they relaxed the stipulations for joining to get more residents, now they wanna punish us for it after they got what they wanted.
Comment by Sunburst Phoenix — May 7, 2007 @ 8:51 am
This is a stupid ill-conceived idea. Why not use a credit card verification to reach Mature tagged land? It would be a good compromise I think?
Needless to say, I won’t be handing over my personal ID information.
Comment by Athis Nemeth — May 7, 2007 @ 9:11 am
LL must do much more to assure our privacy before they ask for info like DL/Passport/SSN. Theft of personal information is big business and a vague assurance that a third party will do the age verification as not nearly enough. Parents should be aware of their children’s activity on the web. All of SL’s web pages should be marked as adult content so that NetNanny, etc. can restrict access by children.
Comment by Pan Miles — May 7, 2007 @ 9:44 am
*signed*
Comment by Forrest Lane — May 7, 2007 @ 9:48 am
This whole fiasco is absolutely rediculous, as someone who has poured money into the Lindex with my card, why should i suddenly have to pay to prove i’m old enough!?
Comment by Tatha Niangao — May 7, 2007 @ 10:08 am
No way!!!!!!!
Comment by Jazzy — May 7, 2007 @ 10:31 am
Signed!!!
Keep it private, everything is fine how it is.
Comment by sixy graves — May 7, 2007 @ 10:36 am
Stuuuuuupid!
Comment by Stupidest LL idea ever — May 7, 2007 @ 11:29 am
Please leave things the way they are. It’s working fine as it is. And does SL and Linden really need another revenue stream?
Comment by Bent Tone — May 7, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
agreed
Comment by Maxximus McMillan — May 7, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
Agreed
Comment by Satin Voom — May 7, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
To right, I refuse to give out personal information
Comment by Ishmael Janus — May 7, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
I dont think this age verification should be put into motion ….
anyways , i am older than dirt :(
Comment by Knee Burns — May 7, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
Agreed.
Comment by Phileas Menges — May 7, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
My concern is purely over data security - no system is hack proof, and information which can lead to identity theft should not be required to be given. Credit cards should be enough.
Comment by Photo Raymaker — May 7, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
*signed*
Comment by littlesexkitten Box — May 7, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
Okay Lindens you have gone to far!!! I will never give ANYONE my social security number!!!I AM OUTRAGED at Lindens thinking we are that stupid!! You dont need that for verification and its illegal to ask!I know you know that and I think you want them for another purpose!!Why would you put your customers in HARMS WAY???There is sex stuff everywhere you go on-line even innocent places you come up with smut! Use your head and fight who ever is twisting your balls!Your customers go through enough now to get money into sl as it is.There is verification on that,isnt that enough! OMG if you want mine I am leaving forever!! I am dissappointed in this request and this is the final straw!! Dont expect me to give you my ss# or anything I think will harm my accounts!
Comment by Katrina Spire — May 7, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
*signed*
Comment by Tazz Mcguire — May 7, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Vinny LeShelle
Comment by Vinny LeShelle — May 7, 2007 @ 5:37 pm
I do have some feeling, that all this ´age verification´ nonsense is not in line with EU law.
SIGNED!!!!
Comment by Anonymous — May 7, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
Something like this puts everyone at risk RL wise and will cost most people their SL homes and playgrounds. :(
Comment by PurevilDarkelf Bulan — May 7, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
Yeah, bad implementation. *thumbs down, in a dramatic Julius Ceaser fashion*
Comment by Charmande Petion — May 7, 2007 @ 6:08 pm
This is BS, this will do little more than ensure the loss of many good contributing members. As it’s been stated, there’s nothing wrong with the current system and making US pay for something of more than questionable security is insane. I’m not paying them to have my identity stolen by a random 3rd party company just to prove that i’m of age. Stop trying to cover your asses LL and have some accountability!
Comment by Rozene Bailey — May 7, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
All users must be over 18. So where’s the problem?
Comment by Patrizia Auer — May 7, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
*signed*
Comment by Justin Chikuwa — May 7, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
I feel a Card holder should be enough of Veritication.
Comment by Six Lewis — May 7, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
I agree, its an infringment of our personal privacy, though those who know me, know that i dont hide much, this is pushing it by anyones standards.
Comment by toy Defiant — May 7, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
I agree, its an infringment of our personal privacy, though those who know me, know that i dont hide much, this is pushing it.
Comment by toy Defiant — May 7, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
signed
Comment by Maximilian Zeevi — May 7, 2007 @ 6:24 pm
LL has accepted that I am over age for more than 3 years.
So, they are now saying that either I was lying, or that their previous attempts at age verification were broken.
I agreed to a contract which let me into Second Life, and I demand the right to continue to receive the service that I pay for.
I will happily sign a document in which I guarantee my real age, and send it to Linden Labs.
However, in this age of identity theft, where we are constantly being told to protect our personal details, I will NOT be giving any personal information to a third-party company.
Freya, UK.
Comment by Freya Becquerel — May 7, 2007 @ 6:25 pm
So to run an adult business, play an adult game or watch an adult movie the Lindens need to know my name address, phone number et al? Screw that.
Comment by Sir Defiant — May 7, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
elghinn masala!!!! I am with this!!!!
Comment by elghinn masala — May 7, 2007 @ 6:32 pm
Tis a shame, SL is going to loose so many great people for such a stupid reason. That is if they continue to go through with this rediculous plan of thiers.
Comment by Daemmon DeVinna — May 7, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
This is going to far. I’m a US cititzen who lives abroad. There is no way I am giving out passport info on the net! Yes I am a free account, but I work my butt off inworld to add to it! If this goes through I will not be able to get to my house, shop, or anywhere I hold positions in-world. That means… I lose everything I have worked so had for! My shops… all of it!
Comment by Kurston Brody — May 7, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Signed!!!
Comment by Onyx Whitfield — May 7, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
Signed, with much dissatisfaction.
Comment by Boss Sirbu — May 7, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
I only visit 2nd Life when I can, but this is getting nuts!
Comment by TwistedAvie Rhode — May 7, 2007 @ 7:05 pm
So what you are saying is that I need to subimt to you my passport info to Host Tringo at Illusion Factory!….Here is some mature content for ya!…”go F@#K yourself”
Comment by Storm Temin — May 7, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
A valid credit card on file and charged should be enough. I don’t want to take a big Identity Theft risk with a company that’s already proved in September that they can’t safeguard data!
Comment by Rowen Musgrave — May 7, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
as a UK resident I’d presume they will be asking for my passport number and/or NI number. Given that they’ll have no mechanism to actually confirm either of those against government databases anyway it is a pointless exercise on their part and an open invitation to identity theft.
Comment by Alison Wheels — May 7, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
like a bunch of others i think this is the most retardest thing ive ever heard every web site i go to dun ask me for no personal info cept for my cc because of hackers i seriously believe the whole majority r going to quit sl because of this an on top of that what bout our homes on mature land what we cant enter our homes either we cant have sex in our homes an if we do y do we have to pay 1500 for that crap isnt this the main grid? i dun think this is the teen grid an wtf r the parents of these children ne ways what happened to parenting?
Comment by starburst hazlehurst — May 7, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
Get real. Any kid who’s that determined to get on-grid can just as easily “borrow” daddy’s driver’s license as he can daddy’s credit card. They’re in the same place!
You want to confirm if the person’s an adult? Fine. Contact the card holder. Their address and phone number are usually in the credit card account… you know, that thing you require just about everyone to have? Call them up and ask “oh by the way, are you yourself using Second Life, or is your child using your card to access adult content?”
I guarantee Little Johnny won’t be able to use daddy’s card again.
But seriously… tell it like it is, Linden Lab. This isn’t really an age verification system, is it? It’s a system to crack down on alt accounts. Gotta have that five bucks, don’t you! And on top of that, I get to pay for the “privilege” of having my personal information “confirmed”?
Forget it. If Linden Lab is that greedy, or that Big Brother, either way I’m disgusted with the system. I’ll close my account and give my money to your competitors. Thanks!
Comment by Wyvern Dryke — May 7, 2007 @ 7:35 pm
This However would be acceptable…copyed from user 116
“The best way this can be handled is to have LindenLabs create a printable form containing your avatar name and have the resident take said form to a Notary or other legal representative. The form would only be available to print from the client while logged in. The Notary examines your age proof (birth certificate, drivers license). The Notary then stamps the form and it can be sent back to Linden Labs via whatever method they prefer (fax, mail). This would prevent anyone other than the Notary even seeing the personal information. Linden Labs does not need our information, they should only need legal evidence that we are of age.”
Comment by Storm Temin — May 7, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
Prodigal Maeterlinck
Comment by Prodigal Maeterlinck — May 7, 2007 @ 7:46 pm
Signed
Comment by Therese Jewell — May 7, 2007 @ 7:47 pm
my alt agrees with this too.
Comment by ssjkriccolo kitchensink — May 7, 2007 @ 7:50 pm
Tsukasaneko Hughes
Comment by Tsukasaneko Hughes — May 7, 2007 @ 7:52 pm
I agree this petition… Please don’t! :(
Comment by Oooooooh Oh — May 7, 2007 @ 7:58 pm
Signed.
Comment by Jason Stardust — May 7, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
SL name: Loki Santana
RL name: Sami keighley
Comment by Loki Santana — May 7, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
I agree!!! I’m 18 and I dont have any ID here in the UK. Im sending off for my passport, but you can take a long walk off a short bridge before you guys in LL make ME pay to send this information to you from money on SL I’ve earned (from being in mature areas.) My house in Sl is on a mature area, my friends in Sl live in mature areas, my freaking work place is in a mature area - I dont think I go anywhere that isn’t a “mature area”. so what are you going to do LL? make me waste the money ive put into rent on my properties and and me to the newbie areas because i wont send you information i dont have? Especially as its to an “unknown third party” i dont think so. You will lose 90% of your UK Players at least. Good going SL.
Comment by Thorn Carnell — May 7, 2007 @ 8:18 pm
Good-bye, SecondLife. I will terminate my account, rather than submit to this scheme.
If my credit card information isn’t good enough age verification for you, you can just live without my money.
Comment by Yinepuhotep Tsuki — May 7, 2007 @ 8:34 pm
I’m looking forward to the day that the Lindens try to kick me off my own land… land that’s signed, sealed, and paid for this past 8 months, because suddenly my age is in question.
Hey Lindens! I thought the mature grid was for adults. Does this mean that you’ve given up rooting out the kiddies who will *still* be on the grid when your absurd age verification system is implemented? You have my CC#, and you people fucked that up by allowing your servers to be compromised. And now you expect us to blithely hand over even *more* information about ourselves? I think you need your collective head’s examined. And then why not examine the standard internet practices of age verification, and learn how it’s already being done.
I’m a paying customer. I don’t know if I’ll remain to be if you monkeys keep stripping away all the things about SL that I love. I suppose we’ll soon find out.
Comment by Wrath Oranos — May 7, 2007 @ 8:43 pm
This is ridiculous. I am a host and if this goes through, this could ruin a lot of business possibilities for all of us. Screw this age verification.
Comment by LTJGRay Schumann — May 7, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
What they should have done was kept the set up they had before. Where you had to register with a credit card or cell phone number…
Comment by Lakritz Dench — May 7, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
I am interested to know how they intend to use a US social security number to verify ID for the huge number of people who don’t live in the USA.
Invasion of privacy aside, we all agreed to a contract when we created our accounts and we provided CC details. That should be enough, it was before and it still should be.
A lot of changes have been made to SL over the years, but the net result is more griefers, higher land prices and creative people closing down their islands in favour of $Linden earning malls. LLabs should focus upon the quality of the product not create new issues such as this ID database mess.
Comment by ristin epsilon — May 7, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
/signed
Comment by Dimitrio Lewis — May 7, 2007 @ 9:07 pm
It’s another one of LL’s ideas that sounds good on the surface but is deeply flawed. Take credit card numbers again if you need more verification, but this big brother “identity verification” is just going to punish people and still not keep children out if they’re determined to be there. I’m worried how many more land owners will go down in this fiasco.
Comment by Haal Ratner — May 7, 2007 @ 9:09 pm
Signed
Comment by Nelly Sugarbeet — May 7, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
I’m against it. Take my Credit Card number, but don’t bug me for more personal information.
Tina Marlin
Comment by Tina Marlin — May 7, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
I agree
Comment by Jewel Tracy — May 7, 2007 @ 9:17 pm
Signed, as a protest against age verification
Comment by Seth Dryke — May 7, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Agreed. I’m not a US citizen, I don’t live in the US - What information am I supposed to provide to make a foreign company happy that I am over 18?
Comment by Brigid McKenna — May 7, 2007 @ 9:44 pm
We have enough problems with identity theft. i am not goign to take more risks by adding to the current exposure I have. On the other hand this is a FREE internet. I dont see any reason why SL should be any different. If this is about certain US Agencies wanting information on a gold plate they can stuff themselves and impose it on their own citizens.
I will not relent to this rule even at the expense of destroying everythign I have in SL.
Listen up Linden get your asses in gear or you will be digging your own end.
Comment by Legolas Luke — May 7, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
First get the lag away!
Comment by Gerwin Hax — May 7, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
No one gets the right to see it, they earn it, step by step, forcing it to be revealed causes major distress in me, and usually I don’t like to be stressed so, consider this petition signed.
Comment by TD Yap — May 7, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
Linden Labs has not been looking to it’s users for feedback for quite some time, and it’s begun to show more and more.
-Frynge Sprocket-
Comment by Frynge Sprocket — May 7, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
Its has to be stopped - i cant believe they would think we are so silly as to give out our personal details in this way - i would leave SL for this - why cant they leave this place well alone - we pay enough in teirs, prem accounts and other inside charges - To Linden: Please leave us to enjoy the game you created in peace
p.s, And there is no way you will convince me that my/and others refusing to agree to this means we dont want to keep children safe!
Comment by Kallys Clyburn — May 7, 2007 @ 9:58 pm
Since being the holder of a credit card, including the one named to pay the invoices, is direct coupled to be of age in your respective country, that should be already proof enough. So I am against further age verication means.
Comment by Quickpaw Sillanpaa — May 7, 2007 @ 10:04 pm
GoldFox Bachman
I aint gonna tolerate this BS, now, come on!!
Comment by GoldFox Bachman — May 7, 2007 @ 10:10 pm
Signed
Comment by Flashing Dagger — May 7, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
Signed - W.F.
Comment by Wolfgang Fackler — May 7, 2007 @ 10:23 pm
i believe with everyone above they have enough info as it is
Comment by Chromer Ball — May 7, 2007 @ 10:25 pm
In its current condition, Second Life is a dubious investment AT BEST.
Is SL a virtual community or and entertainment commodity?
Is it a mere delivery system for big business to rape our minds with “branding”?
By the way I am an entrepreneur myself and part of the corporate ethical revolution!
The greatest investment is PEOPLE!
Comment by RickOShea Courier — May 7, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
signed its bs everyone else shouldnt have to suffer
Comment by xxxSeeingWolfxxx Otawara — May 7, 2007 @ 10:31 pm
This is infringing on what makes second life great
Comment by Mgat2 Marikh — May 7, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
I’ll be done with SL if this goes down.
Comment by Harley Walsh — May 7, 2007 @ 10:36 pm
I am over 18 and thats all that matters - I do not feel you need anymore proof than me saying that and they can already prove that through my card details.
Comment by Geordie Superior — May 7, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
Signed
Comment by Mickey Bartlett — May 7, 2007 @ 10:48 pm
Signed. I will not give out my social security number.
Comment by Ayane Klaar — May 7, 2007 @ 10:54 pm
wait wait! i dont know how things are in US, here in Mexico we is an OPTION to have a credit card, there are plenty of ways showing someone is mature enought. my school is still being paid my my fathers, i don’t oun a work yet, so it’s imposible to me to get a credit card.
and i asure you i am not the only one. so please think about it.
i do a Negative to This!
Comment by Lomstat Dingson — May 7, 2007 @ 10:54 pm
Regardless of the fact its volentary, its still an invation on peoples right to privacy, and there for should not be supported.
Comment by xionwolf udal — May 7, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
Had a discussion with someone here over the AVS going to be implemented, I’m against, he’s for. In the end the L’s came clean with name of company and info that would be requested and I must say that name, place and date of birth and SSN final four is info the L’s already have on me through my card, and therefore nothing I haven’t already made somewhat(!) vulnerable.
I just don’t want Aristotle (power tools for politics)’s Integrity service to hold them. the subtitle of their parent company already gives me the shivers. Sorry if folks got worked up over this, and I’ve lost a friend from the list over it, but finally my point has become self-evident. Look at their site and tell me how you like them, you’ll find it amongst the comments on this blog.
And again, it will inspire rebellious youth to household identity theft, if they were already ok with the fraud of pressing over 18 when they’re not.
Pay to add to some “power tools for politics” database? i wanted out of wetworld bull$#!+ coming in here… our world, our imagination, their total infomation awareness? No thank you. I’ve joined SL’ers Agianst Age Verification, even if the title should have been “against information hoarding”.
And if this rolls out, Chrysala will leave the building.
Comment by Chrysala Desideri — May 7, 2007 @ 11:03 pm
Signed
Comment by Xenos Gremlin — May 7, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
As far as US-based users go, they have said they plan to use the last four digits of the Social Security Number. I strongly disagree with this, as thanks to generations of abuse and uses for purposes for which they were never intended, SSNs are so easily gotten nowadays as to be practically public domain. Nowadays, an SSN doesn’t verify a single thing that a credit card doesn’t.
Comment by Rob Triskaidekaphobia — May 7, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
This new policy is a disaster waiting to happen.
Comment by Grace McConachie — May 7, 2007 @ 11:20 pm
Its just not right that I should send proof for something they really don’t need to do since its aleady covered
Comment by Arnia Bade — May 7, 2007 @ 11:21 pm
Zig Ariel agrees. ;)
Comment by ZiG — May 7, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
Wow, that would make me fee about as safe as a crip walking afoung in the bloods territory. Yall are askin for trouble if this gets passed
Comment by Cheeseboat — May 7, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
What a crock of bull. Why would me giving part of my SS number matter about my age?
*signed*
Comment by Samus Fardel — May 7, 2007 @ 11:36 pm
I agree.
Comment by Jaguar Everett — May 7, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
Signed.
Comment by Sharane Babeli — May 7, 2007 @ 11:51 pm
Vezryl Ersetu - I agree wholely, I refuse to give out my personal details which could divulge so many things about me, to any company with a track record of security breaches in the past. That is final.
Comment by Vezryl Ersetu — May 7, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
Signed. The credit cards should be enough proof, and there is no info about this ‘third party.’
Comment by Nick Morris — May 7, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
I have no problem with age Verification, but not only should credit card information be enough, the idea of them using a third party is completely out of the question. I refuse to give any digits of my SSN to anyone. Neither my Driver’s Licence.
Comment by Seiana Echegaray — May 8, 2007 @ 12:02 am
I would have thought giving your credit card info would have been enough information about me. I do not like the idea of giving other information. I could easily give someone elses information if I wanted to.
Comment by AnnStarr Allstar — May 8, 2007 @ 12:04 am
This is stupid.
Comment by Kelushan Hian — May 8, 2007 @ 12:10 am
The new age verification policy is exactly one metric crock of shit.
Credit cards provide _as suffecient of means as any other method_ of verifying age. An action like this would merely encourage the dedicated to take even MORE sensative information from their parents and give them to someone they don’t even know or care about.
>Landowners are morally and legally responsible for the content displayed and the behavior taking place on their land.
While this is true, it is used to implicate that landowners are accountable for the reprocussions caused by the exposure of such material to those to whom it best not be exposed. This is far from the truth. _Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the parents to censor the material their children are exposed to!_
… And Jack Thompson can eat my cock.
Comment by Melchoir Tokhes — May 8, 2007 @ 12:14 am
I wasn’t sure where I stood on this whole issue, until I read all the responses by others. (and believe me , it took me some time to read ALL of them)I have to say I have many of the same concerns myself now. CCI should be enough.
Comment by Landrew Larsson — May 8, 2007 @ 12:19 am
I disapprove of the system they want to use, the current one is going just fine! Also, what they are trying to do is going against the USA Consitiuon.
Comment by Robbyfox Anzac — May 8, 2007 @ 12:21 am
I, Veluu Faulds, full heartedly agree with this petition. I had my identity stolen once, I -will NOT- go through that hassle AGAIN in my life.
Comment by Veluu Faulds — May 8, 2007 @ 12:36 am
They just released some more info, sounds like they are getting it through their heads that you cant use such info… but they said, and I quote “though many of the comments posted to the announcement have been positive” HA! They must be dumber than a door knob… they are listening to one guy outta us 6+ million users who is a suck up to the lindens. WHY DO WE STILL HAVE TO PAY? Not all of us have money? where are we to get it? buy it! you want our credit cards, you want our money! well then, I say this much… Damn you Second Life! you can kiss my freedom lovin ass over this comunistic and money hungry piece of crap organization
Comment by Keys Zhukovsky — May 8, 2007 @ 12:39 am
Yes id have to leave due to i dont give out info like that….
Comment by CD — May 8, 2007 @ 12:41 am
I must admit that the whole ID thing is a bit ridiculous. One thing is that it excludes non-US residents, and in a more insidious case, it could be used by someone who might try to hack the system to commit massive identity theft.
Comment by Starlight Amat — May 8, 2007 @ 12:47 am
Yes, this is not the way to do it.
Comment by Lynx Manimal — May 8, 2007 @ 12:54 am
I approve of age verification, but disapprove of LL’s way of going about it!
Comment by Sarah Tennant — May 8, 2007 @ 12:55 am
Agree with the others, a better way is needed then this
Comment by Vicky Harlequin — May 8, 2007 @ 1:06 am
Im 19 and most of my friends in SL are from 15 to 26, this SL Age Verification is pretty unfair, Teen SL sucks major cock, there is no fun on it, SL Management is Nucking Futs
Comment by Gabriel Araujo — May 8, 2007 @ 1:07 am
I agree
Comment by Zwagoth Klaar — May 8, 2007 @ 1:15 am
Krystall Dagger, this is dumb and going to do more hurt than help.
Comment by Krystall Dagger — May 8, 2007 @ 1:16 am
Raine Willis.
This is being taken too far. I’m with you 100%.
Comment by Raine Willis — May 8, 2007 @ 1:23 am
Aye, LL need to know, credit card is ALL they should need, as minors are a problem they will NEVER be able to avoid, EVER. Not that I’m saying that minors should be able to play, but its a problem LL should have to deal with and leave the adults out of it, or in other words, paypal, or credit card should be all we need to prove it because this is what happens.
Comment by Avatar Nikolaidis — May 8, 2007 @ 1:37 am
Well what I mean is there is no way and that theres no way around it. Sadly.
Comment by Avatar Nikolaidis — May 8, 2007 @ 1:39 am
I agree, I will not be giving anyone my social, it’s over the top. I clicked I’m over 18, I’m 22 and I signed an electronic agreement. That’s enough to cover their asses. Maybe it doesn’t have to do with age verification at all. Maybe there are alterior motives here…
Comment by Meligo Prevost — May 8, 2007 @ 1:44 am
I agree that it is a rather ridiculous thing to ask for, since not only would it discriminate against people from outside the U.S, but it would potentially make identity theft much easier if such things fell into the wrong hands.
Comment by Starlight Amat — May 8, 2007 @ 1:51 am
Heh …
Comment by Eveline Catteneo — May 8, 2007 @ 1:54 am
Illegal much?…
Comment by Anoria Remblai — May 8, 2007 @ 1:58 am
I feel that the system currently in effect is quite enough. I do not have payment info on record and I do not own a credit card.. I respect that this restricts me from certain areas of the SL world and from working in certain clubs and other establishments… I am well over 18 years of age and have extremly enjoyed my 2nd life.. I do not want anything to change and I feel that if this change goes into effect Second Life will lose alot of people who logg on to have fun and meet new and wonderful people . I know I have met some wonderful new friends from all walks of life and nationalites.
Comment by Lillianna Kayvon — May 8, 2007 @ 1:59 am
WTF are you people thinking, anyway? Doesn’t look like you are. Nevermind.
===
K.D. Savitzky
Comment by Chaoswolf Ashby — May 8, 2007 @ 2:08 am
this sucks, plain and simple. I already put my credit card information down, so why should we have to give them more?
Comment by Sarah — May 8, 2007 @ 2:10 am
Rediculous.
Comment by Ryoaku Kraken — May 8, 2007 @ 2:11 am
I must agree this is an unnecessary and discriminatory step on Lindens part, not to mention illegal by US law and constitution. Youth will if they desire always find a way around what ever measures are put in place to protect them. We as paying members of the community should not be penilized for the miss-deads of a small number of youth, who will find a way around any such system.
Comment by Chas Carter — May 8, 2007 @ 2:21 am
This is outrageous.
Comment by Quantum Breed — May 8, 2007 @ 2:27 am
Second Life provides a safe outlet for many people to explore thier curiosities. Please don’t restrict this safe outlet.
Comment by Federov Janus — May 8, 2007 @ 2:49 am
This is crazy.
Comment by Benjamin — May 8, 2007 @ 2:50 am
Just another way of milking us of our money
Comment by Foux Hax — May 8, 2007 @ 2:59 am
I also hate the idea of a potential breach in personal and private information.
Comment by Kavori Sholokhov — May 8, 2007 @ 3:00 am
CC should be enough, asking for such sensitive information is absurd.
Comment by Kodiak Kinsei — May 8, 2007 @ 3:02 am
I feel this system is wrong. It should not be handled with a 3rd party and use our any part of our SSN. If you want to do some checking you should do it “in house” as we atleast know of your company.
Comment by Dwen Hansen — May 8, 2007 @ 3:03 am
I agree this should not happen. I’d most likely be kicked out since I have no credit card…I’d rather not give out any sensitive information either.
Comment by Victor Kenzo — May 8, 2007 @ 3:11 am
What makes SL so special that they need to go beyond the credit card age identification that everyone else uses?
Comment by Ghee Fisseux — May 8, 2007 @ 3:22 am
Since LL doesn’t know who i am… think i’ll play my irate mum who has unwittingly paid for three years of sl charges
Comment by Bedsee Psaltery — May 8, 2007 @ 3:39 am
its totally ridiculous
Comment by Kiros Ouachita — May 8, 2007 @ 4:00 am
Signed
Comment by Emily — May 8, 2007 @ 4:01 am
With our security allready been jeapordised on SL and persons managing to break in to our so called secure details, giving the lindens more personal information isn’t that putting us all at further risk just in the offchance that underage users are playing, the current control systems for underage users are not perfect but in the world of SL what really is? The current measures are adquate and giving more personal information will only end up in SL loosing some of it’s existing customers those of which are the age group that they are trying to keep.
Comment by Cleo — May 8, 2007 @ 4:02 am
Don’t do it
Comment by fizz ling — May 8, 2007 @ 4:10 am
I agree with this fully.
I have had to verify THREE times already, this enough
Comment by Karlhockey — May 8, 2007 @ 4:18 am
Sl and Rl should be seperate I like most say, i signed a contract saying that i am above the required age.
Comment by Scythe Xenosic — May 8, 2007 @ 4:26 am
No to the restriction
Comment by Alexander — May 8, 2007 @ 4:29 am
Here in Australia we have a TFN (Tax File Number - like your SS number). To open a bank ac, obtain credit card or insurance you need a TFN. Since I don’t own a c.card or drivers lic. I expect my PayPal ac (backed by my bank ac) to suffice. If not, then I’ll refer the Big Brother police to the Australian Tax Office - and good luck getting any info from them! But if this exercise is just to confirm WHO or WHERE (and not HOW OLD) I am then whats the point? Look me up in the goddam phone book!
If SL are worried about minors accessing adult material then why not give parents or guardians the software to limit that access? Too lazy to do that I guess!
And where’s the checks to stop predatory adults getting on the Teen Grid?
I have grave concerns about some data-gatherer storing my private details. In my experience you only ’store’ something if youre gonna use it again. Question is: what will this data be used for in future? What security checks (if any) have SL done on these guys anyway.
I say “NO” to Big Brother! - Klaatu.
Comment by Klaatu Congrejo — May 8, 2007 @ 4:31 am
What if you have no credit card or passport or drivers license or any other method af age verification? Let alone just not being willing to give those details to some internet agency.
Comment by Gundawindy Bing — May 8, 2007 @ 4:31 am
my personal datas will stay personal
Comment by druuna mills — May 8, 2007 @ 4:37 am
I’m not giving that info out to Linden Labs to enter adult areas. If this goes through I’ll be leaving SL.
Comment by Dana Dimsum — May 8, 2007 @ 4:50 am
this is just one big load of bull in my opinion. i’m in the US and i aint giving my S.S. number to any “third party” out there. yah talk about just asking for identity theft. alright ladies and gents say no to drugs and a big hell no to this!
Comment by Drayko DeSantis — May 8, 2007 @ 4:54 am
Mew.
Comment by Srenzil Furse — May 8, 2007 @ 5:16 am
third party ID for the lose
Comment by Rade Hawkeye — May 8, 2007 @ 5:17 am
Signed. People should try to take care of their own kids insted of whinning for everyone else to watch them.
Comment by Bonbon Paperdoll — May 8, 2007 @ 5:19 am
I agree! The credit cart verification was plenty if you ask me!
Comment by Frost Frua — May 8, 2007 @ 5:24 am
No more info from here.
Comment by Peregrine Vollmer — May 8, 2007 @ 5:30 am
I believe it is necessary to attempt to establish that all residents are 18 or over, but I do not believe it is necessary to take these extreme measures. Not only are we being expected to hand over more information than is required for the average porn site, but we will be handing it over to a third party compay with questionable affiliations.
Also when asked what alternatives non US citizens will have (who make up aproximately 65% of the users now) no Linden so far has been capable of responding.
Comment by Allana Dion — May 8, 2007 @ 5:39 am
I signed it, keep my personal information PERSONAL!…. sl is lucky i still play it… maybe we shout boycot (yes my spelling sucks…) it for a couple of days or even a week… see how they like NOT TAKING our money in overly high sim rates, and how we shouldn’t fear them, rather they should fear us… I say we do something drastic to put LL back in its fucking place… kinda like the nation wide gas boycot, May 15th if you dont know… one hole day of not buying anything
Comment by Tozi Hilra — May 8, 2007 @ 5:41 am
I’ve got no means of identification that I’m willing to share for this cause, besides my credit card. As credit cards are limited to those at the age of majority in these parts (i.e. the age needed to get into an AO movie), this should be MORE than enough proof of age.
Comment by Feynt Mistral — May 8, 2007 @ 5:58 am
I support freedom of choice
Comment by Maverick Straaf — May 8, 2007 @ 6:20 am
I dont agree with the higher fee for those who arent residents, and also the whole reason im playing this game is because i can afford it, the free version that is. Making me pay money would defeat the purpose and i couldnt play anymore!
Comment by Kittie887 Tenk — May 8, 2007 @ 6:26 am
this is idiotic– SS numbers aren’t going to help anyone identify anything, but the possibility for misuse is high…
Comment by roque sullivan — May 8, 2007 @ 6:28 am
I agree
Comment by Kavana Liberty — May 8, 2007 @ 6:49 am
Signed, anything else was said already.
Comment by Mel Singh — May 8, 2007 @ 7:00 am
You’ve got my support. This whole verification thing smells like shit.
Comment by Sanderman Cyclone — May 8, 2007 @ 7:02 am
its bs. we dont need more big brother.
Comment by Norton Halberd — May 8, 2007 @ 7:04 am
I have huge privacy issues with this..I’d rather close my account than disclose such personal info over the net, particularly with SL which has known security issues…
Comment by 0leander Raymaker — May 8, 2007 @ 7:07 am
i’ve already paid once for this game, i dont intend to do it again, played it for 2 years, i dont wanna quit, but some things are unaviodable…
WE ARE WITH YOU SIRE, FOR SPARTA, FOR FREEDOM, TO THE DEATH…
Comment by KontrA PascaL — May 8, 2007 @ 7:20 am
This is the most insane and outragous idea yet. I know about the way id systems works, and I’ve done forensic work offline… I can say as someone who has insider knowledge this kind of idea is going to hurt only the people who pays and are honest.
Further more, I can on the spot come up with an endless string of fake ids, fake ss numbers and the like; any one who really wants access will be able to get it reguardless.
If LL does go through with this, as a way to protect their self from law suits, I can say as someone who has knows the inside of the legal system, the first time someone suffers grevious loss or finacial damage as a result of the system (I give it about a week or less from what I read) them AND the third party will likely both be coming at LL with lawsuits worse then what they might have got from an angry parent. :p
Comment by StarShadow Ash — May 8, 2007 @ 7:21 am
Don’t do this, please. There are other operational issues that Linden needs to prioritize!
Comment by Ari Acropolis — May 8, 2007 @ 7:36 am
As any one with a partial mind knows, any onw who has the information they are wanting you to give, has your life and every thing you own. Yea, I’m really going to put my life at risk for a game. I’m not posting in my main account’s name for privacy reasons. I have several accounts, several ones I pay for. >
Comment by Mystikat Lykin — May 8, 2007 @ 7:38 am
This is invasion of privacy.
I have agreed to join SL on LL’s terms and that should be it!
Comment by Sandis Slade — May 8, 2007 @ 7:43 am
I agree with this as well, I do not think this will be in a our best interests.
Comment by Ittindi Gavaskar — May 8, 2007 @ 7:45 am
I’m not worried about providing my info. I’m not worried about paying. I’m not worried about my privacy.
What I’m worried about, is the fact that thousands of people ARE worried, and are going to shy away from this, and shy away from SL. When they do, we’re all going to suffer. Those of us who make our living in here will suffer and/or leave, and not just in the adult industries. I mean let’s not kid ourselves - every person who is here to anonymously explore the adult areas in Second Life isn’t going to just hang around buying clothing, skins, hair, avatars, et al. When they stop spending Lindens, the designers will suffer/leave, and the content, the very fabric of SL, is going to take a dive along with everything else.
Comment by Eva Wyler — May 8, 2007 @ 7:48 am
Signed. You have my support against the introduction of age verification in SL.
Comment by Val Suisei — May 8, 2007 @ 7:54 am
Err… a PARENT’S job is to watch their kids not a game’s job. And what the fuck is are thos people smoking… they are going to be allowing adults access to nonadult areas with this crazy shit and what does that mean kids? PEDOPHILE PARADISE! How the hell else can you segregate people besides who verifies and who doesn’t? Your letting the truely dangerous people get much easier access to under age/minors and people wo are not 18…what are you going to do about that dumbasses?
Think about it, LL is simply making it easier for people to prey on minors not protecting them.
Comment by Zunasha Shichiroji — May 8, 2007 @ 7:57 am
signed
Comment by Pandora Barzane — May 8, 2007 @ 8:04 am
Jaenelle Cortes
Comment by Jaenelle Cortes — May 8, 2007 @ 8:07 am
we are behind you
Comment by MrsPheonix Sands — May 8, 2007 @ 8:10 am
I agree, wholeheartedly.
Comment by Lokee Noltenius — May 8, 2007 @ 8:15 am
A creditcard is not enough ?
Tell me one children which can use a creditcard.
The Age verification is really ok, but you will get important, private informations from us.
Thats not the way !!
Comment by Simba Fuhr — May 8, 2007 @ 8:22 am
The way i see it, as I’ve expressed over the official SL forums. I have only a problem with this method if it prevents me from accessing my own sim or sims i estate manage. I do not plan on giving Linden Lab or any affiliate my personal information, so if choosing not to do this will condemn me of accessing my own areas in SL then i am going to jump on the bandwagon against it entirely. i still see a problem with giving out your RL identity for a online game/social world. I’ve played many online games and none of them ever asked for such information. I always figured they didn’t have the right to. As of this moment i am of age 26 IRL, that is about all the information anybody really needs to know about me unless they want to get to know me better personally without business involved.
Comment by Yiffy Yaffle — May 8, 2007 @ 8:27 am
Do they really want to destroy their own product?
Comment by HaiLuca Ling — May 8, 2007 @ 8:27 am
Agreed!
Comment by Tyrany Oh — May 8, 2007 @ 8:29 am
i agree, not much for me to add here thats not already been said
Comment by Raymie Waverley — May 8, 2007 @ 8:32 am
I checked our data protection law, and asked our Ombudsman about this.
So far it seems it would be ILLEGAL for me to provide my passport or personal identification number.
What really worried me however is how much of my data will be shown on my profile?
Name? Date of birth? Address?
Comment by Kinga Congrejo — May 8, 2007 @ 8:34 am
I will not give my SS Number or my address to anyone on SL they got my Card number that all they will get.
Comment by Dragon Panther — May 8, 2007 @ 8:34 am
nio Kembla agrees
Comment by nio Kembla — May 8, 2007 @ 8:35 am
This is definitely an unnecessarily invasive measure.
- Ynrikan Douglas
Comment by Ynrikan Douglas — May 8, 2007 @ 8:37 am
Leave it as it is - NO age ver.
Sorry there is so many arguments here, with most of them I agree fully.. ( I havent read all the 315 posts before me)
Comment by Nikiya Kidd — May 8, 2007 @ 8:37 am
I agree
Comment by Mariska McMahon — May 8, 2007 @ 8:38 am
This is security theatre. Even worse it threatens to make us less safe. Why must we put up with bad ideas just because they are in the interest of an achknowledged good? PS this webpage is broken for Mac/Safari. Mac/Firfox works fine.
Comment by Francis Kline — May 8, 2007 @ 8:49 am
if age verification were to be required of ALL people on the grid… and required for ALL NEW ACCOUNTS.. I would be in support of it. Making certain that “All of Second Life” is limited to those 18 and older.. even by these means.. is acceptable to me. What is NOT acceptable however.. is the fact that this system, in fact, creates a merging of the Teen grid and Adult grid.
I am WHOLEHEARTEDLY against this new “optional” verification.
Comment by Winter Ventura — May 8, 2007 @ 9:32 am
I’m definitely loathe to send my passport details outside of the UK where data protection regulations are far less stringent.
Comment by Mal Fargis — May 8, 2007 @ 9:35 am
I agree, for it is far to easy already for one to steal others idenity. Let us not make it even easier. Josee Auer
Comment by Josee Auer — May 8, 2007 @ 10:13 am
Signed. Let it stay the way it is.
Comment by Kt Barzane — May 8, 2007 @ 10:16 am
I agree!
Comment by Aikaya Vella — May 8, 2007 @ 10:17 am
I agree
Comment by Gabriele Graves — May 8, 2007 @ 10:29 am
The new verification system will not verify anything for sure and seems very poorly thought out.
I say do not implement it - it will not solve the intended problem but will create many new classes of problem.
Comment by Nathan Childs — May 8, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Agreed
Comment by Justin Ajax — May 8, 2007 @ 10:42 am
I feel that I will be denied access to non X-rated sims marked as mature simply because I feel that is is not safe to send my passport details over the internet to a third-party. I do not feel that this a valid way of verifying age. Any child could easily find their parents passport and use the details to gain verification.
Comment by Rhiannon Burton — May 8, 2007 @ 10:58 am
agreed
Comment by Fizzy Fride — May 8, 2007 @ 11:15 am
that’s not the right way, I’m against the Age Verification
Comment by BlackGuilmon — May 8, 2007 @ 11:15 am
I don’t want to see any more of my personal info flying around the world to places unknown,I have spent a lot of money in SL they should know I’m not a minor by now.
Comment by Howler Banshee — May 8, 2007 @ 11:37 am
I joined Second Life because it was a platform for adults….
I bought land in a mature sim, because I wanted a mature environment…
Now you suggest that I have to give enough data about myself to an as yet unnamed “third party” to have my identity stolen?…
And why do I have to do this?…It seems I have to do this, because Linden Labs has not been successful in keeping minors out of the system?
Now it appears as if it is going to cost ME more money to REAFFIRM my age…(you have my credit card number, that is sufficient for age verification with most internet companies) because you have failed in keeping minors out of the system?…why are residents absorbing the risk to their financial wellbeing and the cost for Linden Lab’s failure?
To my way of thinking, this whole issue is about accountability…children and their parents should be accountable for children getting into an adult game….Linden labs should be accountable for allowing children into the game…Linden Labs should be accountable for the cost of any age verification costs for their game access…
Residents should NOT be accountable, morally or financially, for the failure of others…
Answer these questions with reasonable answers, and I will consider it…
Temporal Mitra
Comment by Temporal Mitra — May 8, 2007 @ 11:40 am
Yes, this age verf. is too tonchy
Comment by Ethen Pow — May 8, 2007 @ 11:57 am
Let it stay the way it is!!!
Comment by Pupa Boucher — May 8, 2007 @ 11:59 am
Well I agree, Maybe NEW residents should provide that info if they push it but the ones already here should be exempt. It is such a invasion of privacy, this is a second life void of all first life. Leave it that way
Comment by Draven — May 8, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
Concur
Comment by Zallia Creeley — May 8, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
I am a grandfather. At the time I signed up with SL, you had to prove you were who you said you were. I proved it then. I have a verified paypal account linked into SL. I am a paid member with a functioning business in SL. I am now told that if I want to visit the locations I have my vendors in I have to pay a 3rd party just for the priviledge of being able to maintain my business? Excuse me, but that sounds a LOT like paying protection money to the mob to me…
I have also been approached by quite a few people that do NOT want their personal info released. One woman told me that she does not want anyone to know who she is or what she does in SL, that she uses SL to act out the scarier fantasies that she doesn’t have the freedom to do so in real life. I’m quite sure she’s not the only one out there doing that, and these people will not be the least bit comfortable telling someone else who they are in SL.
Comment by ImpDaddy Senior — May 8, 2007 @ 12:27 pm
I agree with this petition wholeheartedly. If the current system is working then there is no reason to change it.
Changing it will only very negatively impact SL.
Comment by Julian Tantalus — May 8, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
It’s bull…
…’nuff said.
Comment by Xaryvaas Voss — May 8, 2007 @ 12:44 pm
Agreed. Why should we be made to suffer their incompetences when it was their own lack of security measures and forethought that brought this about. They have made their bed, now time for them to lie in it.
Comment by MatRa Kenzo — May 8, 2007 @ 12:45 pm
They’re definitely going about this incorrectly. Credit card should be enough for legal purposes. If parents can’t control credit cards and their kids, then the kids are likely into a lot more than just SL mature sections. CC should be enough for age verification.
Comment by Baku Palen — May 8, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
i dont like it sounds stupid to me
Comment by Blaze Volitant — May 8, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
i will not be getting verified. i will refuse, even if it means weaving around and bumping off all the adult banlines will come up out of a paranoia brought on by ll claiming we are legally responsible for that happens on our little plot.
i wont pay for that ffs i downgraded because 1.15 is shit for me and i suffer terrible packet loss. i know there are many in the same boat i dont imagine any of them are happy you have been spending your time on voice and avs like a porn site.
ll is making this sim less fun with every update. i swear to god many people are going to remember this when something comes along as a serious competitor. i will feel no loyalty to ll at all.
Comment by nina stepford — May 8, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
Annastina Christensen
(( If a minor really wants to be on the SL adult grid, they will find a way to do it… it doesn’t matter what precautions LL takes. ))
Comment by Annastina Christensen — May 8, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
I AGREE!
Comment by Kaori — May 8, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
Since the lawyers for Linden Labs do not realize that requiring a social security number, in part or in whole, is a federal offense then they should fire those lawyers and hire some that actually went to law school.
Comment by Musimba — May 8, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
Nonsense. Where is freedom?
Comment by JLL — May 8, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
I’m not teriffically keen on this whole idea either Linden-folks… I know you think your trying to protect us, but if people have already entered the adult grid, then they have stated that they are 18 or older. So be it. But, I want/need my privacy, and I don’t want to see this be the end of SL as we know it. I don’t want to even remotely risk losing my personal information kept private, and so far I keep hearing more news about people spilling the beans with my private information with lost or stolen hard drives, or some hacker or disgruntled employee steals our information and sells us all out. Just don’t do it! Keep working on the bugs, and speed up the bandwidth between the servers. Beyond that PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE leave SL as it is.
Comment by Keiko — May 8, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Im again the verification, to protect privacy =)
Comment by Braad — May 8, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
The US social number might not affect me so greatly due to the fact I’m actually British, but I do understand where this is going and I agree fully. I don’t think it’s right to do this when there are so many forms of identification that they take already as it is. I don’t wanna have to go further than provide payment info because that’s all it should really take. Not all these passports and ID’s and social numbers. Next they’ll probably be asking for my blood type, medical reference and other such info. Maybe I’m exaggerating, but that’s what it feels like almost.
Comment by Umushi Yoshikawa — May 8, 2007 @ 2:34 pm
Do Not Want!
Comment by Timber Vuckovic — May 8, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Say no to verification
Comment by Daekar Yoshikawa — May 8, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
I will not give any more personal information than I already have. It is my personal policy and apparently the policy of quite a few others. I hope SL is prepared to lose on this one…a shame to lose all our money and business.
Comment by Bridgit Starbrook — May 8, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
Keep the old method. Less of a chance for ID theft.
Comment by Vector Spaight — May 8, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
The whole idea of changing it is fucked up, the removing of ratings was fucked up (WE PAID FOR THAT!), the fixing and editing on their systems get more and more ridiculous.
I say keep the old method(s).
Comment by Dratai Dryke — May 8, 2007 @ 3:23 pm
Utterly ridiculous. Should this absurd new protocol go through, SL will lose the hundreds of dollars I spend in their virtual community, as well as the fee they charge me for holding a premium account.
Comment by Chase Paderborn — May 8, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
I find that my PeronalID from RL are still for RL and not for SL! I will not longer play SL if I must give my PersonalID ore something from my RL for playing SL
Comment by Mirlana Talaj — May 8, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
I agree with this, though I fear no one that would come to my house… It’s still unfair to take someone’s ID… What happens if you get hacked? We are all screwed basicly. Think about it!
Comment by San Vale — May 8, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
If they introduce this age verification BS, then that’ll just be another icon on my desktop i stop clicking on…
Comment by Kharnijj Yifu — May 8, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
I agree 100% to this being a bad idea. Its called “Second Life” meaning you should keep your first life out of it, personal info and all that fun stuff.
Comment by Mikey Foxchase — May 8, 2007 @ 3:30 pm
I will never give my info out to these inept people. Fix your game and then we’ll talk. You’re going to interrupt my business (unfair to me, my customers, and my wallet), and you will lose a lot of money from those people who trusted you to keep to your contract. Like the OP said, the contract ensures you are not legally responsible for anything that happens to a minor in the game.
Don’t needlessly put off potentially *millions* of customers.
Comment by Earwig Ironclad — May 8, 2007 @ 3:30 pm
Just think, this petition has only just begun and even now Linden risks losing $3,661.60 (yes, seems like petty cash now, but the petition is still going Lindens). That’s just from speculating that the individuals who have joined the petition own premium accounts. Add in the countless number of lindens these individuals purchase, monthly land fees, and the free ADVERTISING you get from the aforementioned indivduals talking up SL to their friends.
Is it really worth it?
Comment by Serishen Cagney — May 8, 2007 @ 3:30 pm
No offense but that fact they expect those with basic accounts to shell out more then those with premiums is going a bit far. That and given what occuried in Sept with the attempted attack, whats to stop that from happening again this time if we did hand over personal ID etc?
I refuse to let that happen nor put myself at such a risk. If LL is that conerned over Age verification they should have tackled this years ago.
Rumors of third parties involved does not help either.
Comment by Mychasi Xingjian — May 8, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
Here in Europe it is illegal to give out, verify or register the details required by linden labs, therefor, I fully agree
Comment by Arnold Wilder — May 8, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
I have a premium account and i´m a veryfied paypal member too. I have also bought a SIM, so what the heck should i verify more for? Paying lots of money to Lindens should show them that i´m f… old enough to handly things. /signed
Comment by Khady Freund — May 8, 2007 @ 4:03 pm
Completely unnecessary and totally invasive. I don’t need it to join any other part of the web that’s restricted to 18+
Are people seriously concerned that SL is a problem compared to porn sites and other places one can go on the web with just a credit card?
Seriously, it’s fantasy and we’re all adults. If you want to be sure everyone is over 18 stop allowing free unverified accounts - it works for EVERY OTHER major website and MMO.
Comment by Genevieve Bluecoat — May 8, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
No verif.
Comment by Xavier Lemieux — May 8, 2007 @ 4:16 pm
wow..make a girl feel loved why don’t you all! lol…Thank you so much for supporting me in all of this. And, for the record I am for Age verification. I am just not for how they propose to do this. Love you all…thank you so very much!
Comment by Adara Vilas — May 8, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
Just don’t do it!
Comment by Ron Khondji — May 8, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
I agree that having a premium account should be sufficent proof of age, as soon as credit card informations are given, there should be no need to provide anything more.
Comment by Key Dyrssen — May 8, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
I have seen SL make some choices that made the game worse. I see this as one of them… I have a credit card on file, and I agreed to the rules…that should be enough.
Comment by Morgana Shi — May 8, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
Just a reminder of the Patriot act allow goverment to collect all information transited thru the US and force all agency and company to give info on anyone that they have in their database to them. So if i was to give my S.A.# on the net it would become the property of a foreign nation that don’t have any business having. for those in the US that information is already available to them but not for the resident of other country. Also, this will allow them to put a valid ID with the avatar that you are using, in fact it would collect info as if you gamble in SL (internet gambling is illegal in the US) how many peoples would like to have a warrant for their arrest for having played a silly game of chance in SL? Also, did you report all the revenu that you have made in SL in your income tax?
This is supposed to be a game and a community.
My impression is that someone is breathing very hard down LL. If they where concerned with age as they say they would have put a system long ago and not throw this in a panic like they are doing. If for all those porn site out there that accept a valid card as proof of age, why would SL really need to get more than that? even just a valid driver license doesn’t seem to be enough.
Another point to bring is that how would they be able to verify a S.A.# as it an internal goverment document and the goverment would not share that kind of information with a company just for the asking. Again this smell like a goverment way of identifying avatar more for law enforcement than really a age verification system to make sure minor are not getting on the grid.
Anyone ever wonder how a unregistered youth would be keep from camming inside a adult parcel and zoom on the action there? how would that prevent kids from it? this is just BS
Comment by keaf taka — May 8, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
come up with a better plan, Linden
Comment by jenette ellison — May 8, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
As a non-US citizen, there’s no way I will submit my passport number to an American commercial entity with no legitimacy or warranties on what will happen to my private data. For all I know, there’s no way for them to verify the accuracy of my passport number since no official state agency in here (somewhere on Earth) will ever agree on divulgating such information. Furthermore, SL is comprised of over 65% non-US residents, I hardly see the third-party, Integrity Inc (a division of Aristotle International), checking MILLIONS of IDs in all countries.
This so-called “age verification” scheme reeks of data-collection (hey, over 6 million residents, let’s know who they are! Here’s a million $ for the data!) and, given the state of affairs when it comes to ID theft, it is dishonest and unreasonable to resquest it.
If it means leaving SL, then so be it. Another free alternative will come up.
Comment by Nirgal Plasma — May 8, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
It’s seriously wrong of LL to ask for such personal information.
I agreed to the terms, I am 24 years old and i’m not risking Id theft to prove my age.
Comment by Mistylee Usitnov — May 8, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
Its bull, i think SL will lose alot of players if this goes through, i should have to risk identity theft to prove my age when i’m 22.
Comment by Kittaria — May 8, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
This is sparta!
They are not allowed to do this to us without having a vote on it! If you can’t vote on it then why try and do it?
Also, This is quite illegal.. and by doing this our home Secondlife will dissappear! forceing us to find some new home! DOWN WITH AGE VERIFCATION!
Comment by Cinot Beck — May 8, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
Ill be quiting SL if I have to do this.
Comment by Misty McClure — May 8, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
Nothing to add.
Comment by Seeso Noel — May 8, 2007 @ 6:53 pm
I am absolutely against the system proposed. It would not stop kids who want to get into the adult grid from stealing just another series of numbers from their parents. But it would put our sensitive personal information at risk on the net and a load of data in the hands of an agency that I have no reason at all to trust. My intelligence feels insulted. Linden Labs: if you are under legal pressure, reread the law and defend the contract we all signed with you when we created our accounts; if you are trying to conduct a market study, feel free to come out with the right questions and many of us will answer them freely to help you develop the future of sl; if you just need more money, think of an honest, respectful, non-invasive way to ask for it. I am european, but that is the least of my concerns in this case: I think the vast majority of the sl community, without distinction of ideas, beliefs, culture or local laws, would feel unduly coerced by your proposed system and would leave the game before submitting to it.
Comment by Lila Aquacade — May 8, 2007 @ 6:57 pm
I will go as far as sending a notarized letter verifying my age; this is a legal document and should be more than sufficient proof. I will not under any circumstance provide a Social Security number on the Internet. Only a fool would jeopardize their SS benefits and risk Identity theft by sending this extremely personal and private information to a company they have no prior relationship with.
Comment by AuraRaine Demina — May 8, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
Sonya Gausman
OK, assume I’m 17 (or 16 or whatever, like 8). Now - who’ll prevent me from taking my dad’s/mom’s/brother’s/sister’s documents?
OK, now assume I’m 20 (which is true by the way). Assume I live in a country where there are no IDs (like US as far as I know). Firther more, I never went abroad so I don’t have a passport and I don’t own a car so I don’t have driving license. The question aries: How am I gonna get verified?
Even if you have those documents I can only imagine how much effor you’ll have to put to get age verified. I imagine that for citizens of countries other then USA, UK and other “major” countries it’ll tourn out to be a nightmare.
It’s not only that old players may choose to quit the game - it also means taht new players may ignore the game because they weren’t able to test its full potentail without getting into the whole age verification nonsense and paying.
As far as paying is concerned: It was said that users will be charged a little fee. It was said taht it could be even 1L for a premium account. Basic account will have to pay a little more. So now - there are 6 milion avatars in SL, no metter how you count they’ll get more then 10 milion liden dolars just for introducing age veritifation. The old saying seems to be true again: If you don’t know what’s it all about it’s about money.
But even if they (Lidens) had a 100% sure method of verificating age it won’t solve the problem since not all vendors and land owners will marke their parcels as “Adult” so even with age verification minors will be able to access such places.
Comment by Sonya — May 8, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
Its a buncha crap ! Theres no sense in having to give out personal info for a game that starts out FREE. They should be fine with a payment system on file to prove or disapprove any age. And for those who don’t bother with a payment method, they still agreed to the contract.
Comment by Requiem Giha — May 8, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
My experience with SL is that the system for dealing with griefers/underagers/etc. works. Far better than some other online systems.
As an adult woman… I value *MY* privacy - and respect the privacy of others. I *DO NOT* want to give my personal info to just anyone. I have made that mistake before… and been harrassed. BUT I was able to deal with it - at least I could figure out who had info about me.
I am on SL…. to be what I want to be.. in private. This is my Second Life. I don’t do RL/SL cross-overs. I think my privacy and the privacy of others should be respected.
Comment by Kaviara Nastula — May 8, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
I am against the age-verification system. It is an intrusion upon our privacy, and renders us vulnerable to identity theft when the inevitable hacker comes calling.
Comment by Andros Baphomet — May 8, 2007 @ 7:10 pm
SIGNED!
Comment by Chip Mielziner — May 8, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
too much info is dangerous…
Comment by Uber Stein — May 8, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
total crap, if one leaves because of this can we get a refund of real money spent or left in reserve, after all the contract goes both ways, i signed up to have fun, and not give too much info to those that have no need of it.
By bringing in these restrictions they are drastically changing what i signed up for. I have a Myspace and they just ask you to verify, same with yahoo, yes both are not perfect but if a child lies then they are not responsible.
This stinks of political crap being thrown for no reason other than cheap publicity, how many linden are not from the US, is it legal for a us company to hold social security/id numbers for these sovereign nations??
this is a big stinky can of worms and it is only going to get worse.
Comment by ilsa schnyder — May 8, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
Let us all be free at least in this world, please
Comment by Hajott Merlin — May 8, 2007 @ 7:45 pm
I dont want to give out the kind of information they want
Comment by Ikari Chaika — May 8, 2007 @ 7:46 pm
It is better that TEN KIDS run free on the grid then ONE ADULT being kicked out.
Comment by Renissy Slade — May 8, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
This is just insane… No Linden just no. just drop this idea in the documentshredder and never speak of it again. Do you really think this will stop minors from getting in if they want to? I can answer that question for free, and the answer is … NO.
Comment by Ellinor Allen — May 8, 2007 @ 7:52 pm
Signed.
Comment by Katana Redgrave — May 8, 2007 @ 7:55 pm
In this age of technology, there MUST be a less intrusive way. I understand the need, but keep working at finding a better solution.
Comment by Sarrah Hitchcock — May 8, 2007 @ 7:57 pm
Agreed, just like anything else LL has done.. its half assed.
Comment by Vehementi Nacon — May 8, 2007 @ 8:00 pm
As a 21 year old who joined last year using a phone, I’m upset to hear that they are doing this. They can’t keep our passwords save, why should we give them our personal info? Besides, what the heck is called “adult” anyway? Different countries have different views on that topic, we can’t decide because of that, linden, either tell us what’s adult and lose a bunch of players on this stupid idea, or get rid of it and let us players be happy. We made you who you are, and we can break you as well.
Comment by Revenile Foley (SL name) — May 8, 2007 @ 8:26 pm
Like hell they are getting my SSN! I have enough financial problems without some one stealing my Identity too!
Comment by Lupercus Javelin — May 8, 2007 @ 8:33 pm
what ? why haven’t I heard of this yet
Comment by Jenny Klata — May 8, 2007 @ 8:35 pm
LL, You have went from bad to worse in this case. Not only are you money grubbing thieves, but you are asking us to do something very much against our standards and illegal. My future husband can turn you in for even requesting that we send you bits of our SS number. It’s illegal and we don’t have to. We signed a contract prior to joining, proving and admitting we were adults. You’re just being retarded on the matter, and of course this stupid idea you have just has to some how involve pay or more money. You guys are leaches, and don’t care about how hard we work to earn the money we waste on your filthy asses. We don’t get half the shit we deserve, for the amount of money we spent on your or your products. Fix your problems, or Shut down Second Life. One way or another, you WILL be sued if you keep this scamming and rediculous behavior up.
Comment by Stray DeVinna — May 8, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
@ 407 : Completely agreed.. If this goes through, I’m fairly sure SecondLife will have quite a few less members.. let alone, less premium members at that. As Revenile stated, if we cannot even trust them with out passwords - what does that put on OUR mind that LindenLabs could end up doing? Lossing the information accidentally, redistributing it accidentally.. Also agreed with Vehe, LindenLabs does do things half-assed..
I sign!
Comment by Nook Taov — May 8, 2007 @ 8:38 pm
so now I have to risk idenity theift? Nice idea LL.
Comment by Krazed Thunders — May 8, 2007 @ 8:39 pm
Personally I could care less about the sex clubs or the other sexual role playing places out there. My attitude is as long as you are not hurting anyone be who or what you want to be its your dream live it. Now I do care about this age thing. My guess is that some sales person approached this company and made them a per account offer and this is just a trial run to see if it works by take one group of people as a control group knowing that it is a large group of people on the web. If this is a sucess then it will be moved to every account on the grid. How do we fight this? If no one uses it the test is a failure this unknown company just lost money instead of making money and will have no reason to offer their unwanted services to us.
Add me to the list please.
Comment by Brett Finsbury — May 8, 2007 @ 8:40 pm
Signed.
Comment by Sybil Odell — May 8, 2007 @ 8:44 pm
Linden Labs compromised our credit card and other personal info in 2006, and now they want us to trust them with our driver’s licenses and social security numbers?
Comment by Chris Miller — May 8, 2007 @ 8:51 pm
I agree.
Comment by Stavin Carter — May 8, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
Signed
I have not trusted Linden enough to use my Credit card to buy Linden Dollars and this move makes me a little bit worried.
This will not stop minors on the main grid as they can still use someone elses account and/or details when signing up.
At this time I am not confident in trusting Linden with personal and private details.
This move may be the death of second life!
Comment by Joseph Rustamova — May 8, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
How can credit card verification not be enough? It’s fine for all the other games, it’s really not worth the risk of identity fraud when SL’s ass would be covered in any lawsuit.
Comment by Zynx Zabelin — May 8, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
Crash issues should come before age verification. I mean I’m all for protecting youngsters, and letting them get in here screw up everyone’s good time… but LL has other problems they should be fixing first.
Comment by Charon — May 8, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
This will not of course keep minors off the grid. What SL needs to do instead is require CC info on all accounts. As for asking for the SSN I wonder what the lindens will do when the first DA (in the US or elsewhere) files charges aginst them. It is illegal to ask for the SSN in some states of the US.
Comment by Vanessa Sakai — May 8, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
Linden Labs was incredibly arrogant when stating that WE have a moral obligation to flag our land with adult material (in a MATURE sim I might add!) to keep youngsters from seeing things they shouldn’t.
Now honestly, first and foremost THEY own the entirity of Second Life, regardless of who buys what, etc etc and therefore it is THEIR responsibility, not ours to assure that those that are deemed underage by the government in question (US gov’t and NOT mine I might add.
Those of us that have signed up already using a credit card, debit card (based on your bank account) or PayPal should have ALREADY been verified by LL. If they failed to do so the onus is on THEM not us. The rather weak argument about the possibility of a minor using an adults card is again a failure on their part. If an account is in question surely a check against age, name, address etc can be run and if things don’t add up they can investigate further.
In most cases common sense would prevail. For example, I am 36 years old and reside in the UK. I have had my bank account for 8 years. Now, were I a minor then that would mean that my bank would have had to have given me a debit card to fund that PayPal acccount that I have had for the last 4 years to a minor, a very very young one at that. It is illegal to do so in the UK thus proving beyond doubt that I am indeed an adult. This has been verified by my bank AND by PayPal. Whilst I find this entire debacle apalling and ludicrous at best, I would consent to this information being provided by either institution in order to prove my age.
I will not, however, send them any scrap of id. Nor am I willing to pay anyone to witness (notarise) copies of these forms of id. It’s none of their business. When I signed up for SL I had a choice of what information I needed to provide to play. I accepted those terms and agreed to them. I paid and continue to pay for this ‘privelege’ and in my mind they have made a contract with me.
Something else that has been brought to my attention, and bear in mind I do not know if this is indeed true, is that it may indeed be illegal to ask for this kind of id and indeed supply it in both the UK and the USA. I’m hoping to learn more on this, it should put quite an interesting kink in LL’s works *smug grin*
Comment by Sorsha — May 8, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
Four-hundred and twenty-one signatures, and this is just the people who KNOW what’s going on. I thing the majority of peopleon SL don’t even feel safe giving their credit card data away, and they’re asking us to check into this place like it’s a foreign nation or something? I’d rather hand out my AIM name to all my friends here and abandon SL entirely before I let them banish me from this place just ’cause I don’t want to give out my social security number to them. If they want to give me a job, fine. Otherwise, go buzz.
Comment by Iffy Jottere — May 8, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
I agree
Comment by Voodoo Buwan — May 8, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
Stupid idea!!!
Comment by Jeannette Spitteler — May 8, 2007 @ 9:58 pm
Open a bikini bar. Everything is covered right?So no need for an ID check. Special VIP members get a certain other level of service in your “PRIVATE GROUP” once they are trusted. Just like in a speak easy in the dirty 30’s when alcohol was illegal in the USA.Look at the crime that caused.
Adds a bit of glamour and excitement to it doesnt it? since there is a risk invloved.
Other than that add me to the list.
Comment by BlackHawk Sands — May 8, 2007 @ 9:59 pm
On the subject of the implementation of the age verification system SecondLife (SL) I will say a few words that have undoubtedly been brought up already but again should be said.
There is a teen grid, measures and attention should be given to keeping adults out of the seventeen and below separate system, than restricting of access to areas of an adult in the Adult system where at signup all must read and provide accurate information under penalty of law to Linden Labs (LL). There is a disclaimer that then should release LL from any who provide disinformation about their identities, also the agreement, agreed to by the adult for making the avatar in the Adult system, states that they provide true information and will be held liable for that information proving inaccurate due to it being a breach of contract.
As was stated above, not all adults have credit-card numbers or the like as a means of identification and even so, personal information is protected by the individual’s bank. The individual’s bank can only release information if they are required to, by law. This does not stop a seventeen year-old or younger gaining access to their parent’s card or indeed have permission by their parents to use said card to pay for a game or system such as SL.
By LL implementing the use of Social Security numbers (SSN)or Social Insurance Numbers (SIN) as is used in Canada (CAN) or the United States(USA)even partially is opening themselves to accusations of infringement upon rights, freedoms and borders on discriminations. If found liable and held accountable for any of those accusations at a future time, they undoubtedly then will find themselves at the other end of a lawsuit. With as many as six million people on SL, LL will go bankrupt and the hole that was dug by opening up this can of worms will then see SL finished and those who make their livelihoods from this system will be destroyed.
Right now the Age verification system they wish to implement is voluntary, however this may not always be the case and indeed may be made a mandatory thing at a future time. Since the Lindens rarely speak or give new information on this score or other concerns truly and viably brought up, one is left to assume what one will. The lack of communication between the two, the player base and LL in regards to SL play and how this verification system truly is to work… is part of the problem in and of itself. If one wishes to allay fears, such as this implementation creating dream come true for those who wish to commit Identity Theft, they need to speak and speak often and communally with answers. Contradictions or answers of “I do not make the decisions” by any Linden should not be tolerated by the law-biding Adults of the system who fear their rights are being encroached upon and or violated by the implementation and indeed are not acceptable on a subject as sensitive as protecting one’s Identity.
Again, as was stated above, if LL is to implement this verification process and restrict adults from area’s of the main system that they should still have access too, they must then define Adult, and all categories of classification such as mature, or general to such a degree as to leave no grey area of interpretation by the player base of what they mean. Also, by so doing they dance on the line of what then is socially, ethically, morally, spiritually…ect acceptable which as stated above is different from country to country and place to place. SL offers a way for cultures ect to interact in a neutral territory that in many ways is beneficial to promoting harmony by so defining the categories, they remove that by making it then a system where it must be a certain mind, social upbringing, ect that has access to it. It will open SL to a lot of social stigmas and hatreds if one is forced to agree to LL’s interpretations of such things as Adult, mature ect… are.
Also, it is strongly felt by my person that it is wrong of LL to after this implementation and restriction of Adults from certain areas, to hold the land owner responsible for a breach of the restrictions. It is incomprehensible to me that a Land Owner should be banned or restricted from use of SL for any period of time, due to a griefer coming into their sim and violating the classification of it. A Land owner of a general use classified sim, shall be held responsible for violation of their classification regardless of them being online or not if two griefers enter their sim and in front of all engage their two avatars in cybering, essentially, to explain a different way. I know not about anyone else, but that does not sit right with me.
Back to the SSN and SIN. Here are the links to the bills of the USA and the Government site of CAN in regards to SSN and SIN use. Bon Appetite!
USA Library of Congress: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:1:./temp/~mdbsVqv0yi::
CAN Privacy Commissioner’s site: http://www.privcom.gc.ca/fs-fi/02_05_d_02_e.asp
I am an adult, I am on a freebie account and do not have a Credit Card. I have been using the SL system for coming up to a year now. *Raises hand* I am an addict to the system but like hell am I going to give my SIN card number even partially to a game that has proved itself unreliable in retaining said information even if a third party is used. I have known many upon this system and wish not to see it fall to ruin but I cannot fathom restricting of an Adult’s rights further when LL has already covered their ass in the contract we all had to read and agree to before our avatars were even made. Also, The question on my mind is why is LL concerned and wasting a chunk of its attention upon something its already covered its ass about and not the stability of the grid or fixing of glaring errors that have been there for who knows how long… Am I the only one to ask this and why are we not being told the ins and outs of something so important as this??
I am an adult, I am 23, I do not frequent places in SL that I do not wish to go to, or places that I find personally offensive but to be restricted from going where I choose and having the choice of where to go removed from me in an adult sim when I am an adult is unacceptable. I will not be one of they who volunteer my personal information to be stolen from me.
*Signs the petition*
Comment by Aranea Cullen (SL name) — May 8, 2007 @ 10:01 pm
if LL will start collecting ID-Numbers, an other team will start with the third life=better life and SL will died.
right!
Comment by Love Ewing — May 8, 2007 @ 10:01 pm
think we have enough rules and regulations RL to protect us from ourselves
Comment by Galen Carter — May 8, 2007 @ 10:23 pm
Making an exception for some of the details about how I am known to LL (I am unverified, which makes the detail as described incorrect for me), I sign to underwrite the idea behind this petition.
Probable answer: “Fine. You are not required to verify.”
Comment by Laetizia Coronet — May 8, 2007 @ 10:33 pm
This nonsense should stop now. Everything can’t revolve around “protecting” children against themselves and their own curiosity by making adults spend time and money to create high levels of security. I have never seen any evidence that kids getting a glimpse of adult life is harmful to them. There’s a massive difference between seeing SL cartoon characters in sexual situations and being physically harmed or sexually abused.
Enough.
Comment by Circular Rhode — May 8, 2007 @ 10:34 pm
I think many other posters have made a solid case explaining why this is a bad idea, and I think they are pretty much right. This new policy is SOLELY about protecting Linden Labs from any liability for serving adult content to minors. I will NOT comply. I hope most of the citizens refuse to comply as well. There is risk involved in giving out this information to a company that sells lists of names. (If it is indeed Aristotle/Integrity who will be doing the verification)
So much for “Your world, your imagination.”
Comment by Umbra Lunardi — May 8, 2007 @ 10:38 pm
Signed. LL can wank the happy stick. asking for SSN is illeagal unless LL is going to employ me, and pay the IRS taxes on my income. thuink they will? hardly. petition signed against LL
Comment by Dani Bergson — May 8, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
I can see the ideaology behind this if they’re trying to shield themselves against lawsuits, but as stated, they’ve covered their rears with many terms in the TOS, and have validated us one way or another at some point in our continued use. I feel bothered by the breach of my own personal privacy to play a game that I myself thought was ahead of its time.
Comment by Aleu Galsworthy — May 8, 2007 @ 11:02 pm
DO NOT WANT!
Comment by Anonymous — May 8, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
This is unbelievable. I will not PAY for this, but ALSO I WILL NOT trust ANYONE at some gaming company with my SSN and License. Does that not just *OVERTLY* shout Identity theft? I don’t trust the bank with my license and SSN. Why would I trust people who PLAY GAMES?
This will be the last straw. I will leave SL forever, but not before getting all my money back. Linden will go down and out because of this.
Comment by Skye Sixpack — May 8, 2007 @ 11:41 pm
I dont like giving out any personal info on the net, SL could not keep its own databases safe, why should we have to risk are info with a 3rd party just to see stuff other people have made. it true teens should not be on the main grid but to lock everyone who does not prove themselfs gets locked out of just about everwhere else.
Madpeter Zond - BlackAtom laptops - No to SL age ID’s
Comment by Madpeter Zond — May 8, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
I agree. The game is working just fine the way it is, and I will not give out such information to a private company under these circumstances.
Comment by Danielle Altamura — May 8, 2007 @ 11:53 pm
I agree. The game is working just fine the way it is, and I will not give out such information to a private company under these circumstances. Don’t get this spam protection thing, it’s not letting me submit >.
Comment by Danielle Altamura — May 8, 2007 @ 11:53 pm
OMG do get me started on this crap. This is an invasion of our privacy and its illegal for the information they want. and why should I trust them.
Comment by Countessa Desade — May 9, 2007 @ 12:00 am
This is a mockery of privacy.
If there is any other way to do with that would protect the personal information of the citizens of second life I would support it heavily.
Hibernian Yellowjacket
Comment by Hibernian Yellowjacket — May 9, 2007 @ 12:01 am
Agreed. Credit card info should be enough.
Comment by Kelseigh Miranda — May 9, 2007 @ 12:01 am
Drivers liscence info and SSNs?
Is this really about age varification or making an indentity database on SL users.. like the government wants the whole internet..
Comment by Janey Suen — May 9, 2007 @ 12:15 am
I think this whole idea of the age verification is going way to far, i mean if adult sites only accept credit cards why should SL be any different?
Comment by Shaun etchegary — May 9, 2007 @ 12:16 am
I think the whole idea of this age verification thing is going to far, if adult porn sites are happy enough to accept credit cards, then SL shouldnt be any different, i also believe parents should play a strong part in keeping their kids away from adult sites and/or games
Comment by Shaun Etchegary — May 9, 2007 @ 12:19 am
I absolutely will not provide additional personal info. A credit Card# is scary enuf
Comment by Vonn Box — May 9, 2007 @ 12:22 am
not doing it…already got hit with idenity theft once not doing it again.
Comment by cuznit oh — May 9, 2007 @ 12:25 am
LL seems to be making bad and worse decisions lately. This is the latest. (Hopefully the last? hah.)
Comment by Eventyr Yue — May 9, 2007 @ 12:26 am
Hands off my SS# - my credit card # should be enough (it seems to be for most porn site, yes?). Regardless, having my driver’s license # and SS# won’t prevent kids from seeing pixelated boobies or talking dirty with someone else if that’s what they’re after.
Comment by Bopete Yossarian — May 9, 2007 @ 12:32 am
Probably the worst decision they can make.
Comment by Osayidan Khome — May 9, 2007 @ 12:34 am
I can’t believe they’d do that! I’m not about to give any of my info to anyone! *signs*
Comment by Arali Janus — May 9, 2007 @ 12:37 am
I dont see how this will help security any. underage persons will only use they’re parents names and information. I’ve knowen of many people in other situation not unlike this one where the kids stole they’re parents personal information to create an accout else where. if anything this “security” implimetation will only cause thoughs ligitimet users that are currently enjoying secondlife to be less secure. and makeing it easyer for identity thives. concider my signiture given.
Comment by Seath McLander — May 9, 2007 @ 12:46 am
Agreed. This is a bad decision.
Comment by Thorn Lehane — May 9, 2007 @ 12:50 am
I agree completely. They certainly are not getting their hands on my SSN.
Comment by Luxarnia Dagger — May 9, 2007 @ 12:50 am
Indeed, this is a very bad decision — especially since no age-verification method will actually work. Kids have been using their parents’ and friends’ credentials to get adult content off the Internet for years. This policy has no “magic bullet” to kill that loophole.
Comment by Amanda Ascot — May 9, 2007 @ 1:02 am
They should be cracking down on new accounts, not harassing those of us that are already here. This verification thing is the wrong approach. And I happen to like my online privacy.
They say this verification will be completely voluntary… voluntary BUT IF YOU DON’T you lose access to places labelled as Adult. Think of the reasoning behind this… they’re trying to keep underaged accounts on the main grid out of adult regions. This is a stopgap, an admission of failure… they’re supposed to be keeping underaged accounts OFF THE MAIN GRID ENTIRELY!
Comment by Johannason Scarborough — May 9, 2007 @ 1:09 am
Age Varififation yes, but not like this. Being from europe, having to give my ‘full’ ID number instead of a few digits is unfair, not to mention unsafe.
Optional? My bum! Even if I don’t care for seeing Adult material in particular, Adult regions will criple my freedom to travel and move when I do not succumb to LLs wishes. Not to mention that there’s no proper clarification for private sims wether or not they need to flag their whole sim adult if there might be adult stuff in one of its parcels. Stuff getting rediculous, you have my vote here!
Comment by Sandling Honey — May 9, 2007 @ 1:16 am
I’m less worried about the information given and more worried about how this will split communities between the verified and unverfied. This really needs to be though out better and not rushed through in fear of lawsuits.
Comment by Lallix Lollipop — May 9, 2007 @ 1:16 am
I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Megan — May 9, 2007 @ 1:17 am
no to age verification, no matter what LL asks for, the immature and underage will find a way in. Fake ID, cheat codes, hacking programs or otherwise. The more ID we give over the net the more doors we leave open to our RL. We use SL to escape the RL not let every stranger into it.
Comment by Devon — May 9, 2007 @ 1:34 am
Personal info should stay personal.
Comment by Niki Petrov — May 9, 2007 @ 1:36 am
While I am all in favor of age verification, this new method seems to be a total waste. Instead of using for only the free accounts, they are hitting all the loyal people who make the game what it is and thus making it harder to want to go back. So I vote no on this. I know jobs require your licence or such information, but they’re not paying us, are they? And unless they will pay for postage for sending a copy of whatever piece of info, I will not be back until things have changed.
Comment by Alpinche Puff — May 9, 2007 @ 1:37 am
I don’t really want to give out my info when there is safer options that can be done with less bad results.
Comment by Mr Yin — May 9, 2007 @ 1:41 am
No to SL-AV, as proposed by Linden Labs.
Comment by Tony Holiday — May 9, 2007 @ 1:45 am
Sneff Sillanpaa of SL
Comment by Sneff Sillanpaa — May 9, 2007 @ 1:49 am
Naughty naughty i dont like you lindens
Comment by Zorlak Dengaku — May 9, 2007 @ 1:50 am
Age verification will be the death of SL. So the Sekaith Said.
Comment by Sekai — May 9, 2007 @ 1:53 am
Does this mean we get to play Second Life: Identity Theft now? *winks*
Comment by Nanase Masukami — May 9, 2007 @ 1:55 am
NO to SL Age Verification
NO to handing over sensitive personal information, (Passport, driver’s license, SSN, IN, CPR) in any way shape or form. My CC info and word will have to be enough, It is for any other game out there.
Comment by Ahdri Writer — May 9, 2007 @ 2:02 am
I am happy to see some one has allready made a petition, I was just about to work on one my self, I support you in all your effort, I will spred the word of this petition to all my friends who play sl, I found a sign just now giving me a link here, I think that there should be more posters/signs/shirts even to show how this idea is very flawed that LL has come up with.
I hope this petition wins, I know alot of adults on here wish it goes thru but for me I think there are to many hackers out in the world today to really be able to trust even the most secure of sites.
Comment by Zol Link — May 9, 2007 @ 2:10 am
Agreed. Linden Labs shouldn’t go through the trouble of adding age verification. Those already on are fully aware of the consequences at hand. it’s not the responsibility of LL watch someone else’s children, LL’s job is to deliver swift punishment to those who break these rules.
Comment by Robert (Opius Oddfellow) — May 9, 2007 @ 2:24 am
No SL age verifacation *nods head*
Comment by Chris — May 9, 2007 @ 2:37 am
Age Verification? No, Sounds More Like An Excuse to Take More of Your Money.
Please Vote No One This Piece of Lindenfail.
Comment by Wraith Sin — May 9, 2007 @ 3:20 am
I’ve already added my payment info, that should be all the proof of age linden needs
Comment by Roberto — May 9, 2007 @ 3:26 am
*adds* I’m not letting any unessacary info about myself out
Comment by Xavier Student — May 9, 2007 @ 3:30 am
Stupid idea. PS its illegal to use SSN as ID.
Comment by Samantha Chandler — May 9, 2007 @ 3:40 am
NO!! You already ave my payment info to verfy!
Comment by Tootall Briggs — May 9, 2007 @ 3:43 am
Agreed, been in this game for 3 yrs now and have spent plenty of money thru my payment verified accounts, as well as having paid for 2 of them before the whole free account crap started.
Comment by AJeanette Cunningham — May 9, 2007 @ 3:44 am
A SSN is too important and personal to give to someone online that you have never met before just to prove you are old enough to be in SL. If it got into the wrong hands it could become a nightmare. So many people have had their lives ruined due to having their SSN stolen. My identity and credit is so important and my credit isn’t the greatest as it is, let alone have someone steal my identity and make my credit a nightmare.
Comment by Saige Garden — May 9, 2007 @ 3:58 am
The whole thing is BS. Just another way to get more money from people.
Comment by Boomer Vella — May 9, 2007 @ 4:06 am
Melody Runo - SN
This Age verification is bull, if a credit card doesn’t verify age, nothing does. an SSN can be taken as easily as a CC number is, and not to mention there will be a COST for it. I’m sorry, but think of another way of getting money from us, instead of limiting what we, the people that pay for this game and enjoy it, to get away from the real world, can do in it…
Comment by Melody Cross — May 9, 2007 @ 4:28 am
I payed 9.95 for this game to both verify my age and download the SL client. I’ve been on the grid for almost two years now, and this is the only thing LL has done that has ever made me upset. And boy howdy is it makin’ me upset.
Comment by Tyla Diamond — May 9, 2007 @ 4:37 am
Signed. I do not like the feel of this.
Comment by Pseudo Exodus — May 9, 2007 @ 4:41 am
Since giving out my SSN will break the law in denmark, i cant really support this.
Comment by Hesten Blabbermouth — May 9, 2007 @ 4:55 am
vive la liberté
Comment by scalpaw slade — May 9, 2007 @ 5:00 am
i agree
Comment by raz fratica — May 9, 2007 @ 5:06 am
Hope this does some real good and gets the message across
Comment by Mystic Soothsayer — May 9, 2007 @ 5:34 am
No online entity, for any reason, may have my home address or social security number. If Linden Labs were a government agency who would already have access to this information, then fine. However they are not. If they are going to demand too much personal information of me, then I am simply going to move on to greener pastures. And there are many.
LL is simply digging its own grave.
Comment by Brigg Warf — May 9, 2007 @ 5:38 am
I agree, and while they may see the need to age verify this is not an appropriate choice in an age of identity theft on the rise and other such things. Charging for it is just insane. “Pay us to take your personal info and give it to a company over which we have no control but that says they are secure.”
No thanks.
Comment by Saylan Remblai — May 9, 2007 @ 5:51 am
I’ve been a victim of identity theft and i know the trouble it causes. i don’t even give direct pay information to lindens, and besides those with pay info already have, whats the point for the added layers if it’s information they already have. it seems a waste of time and effort
Comment by letranger decuir — May 9, 2007 @ 5:54 am
well if they need my ssn I guess I’ll be saying ta ta b4 then to all my friends… never give that except to RL bank and IRS
Comment by GaryQ Heron — May 9, 2007 @ 6:09 am
This is the beginning of the end peeps! Because of shit like this, SL as a whole is doomed to failure. Mark my words!
Comment by Tonia Antonelli — May 9, 2007 @ 6:28 am
i dont think this is about children at all. the latest blog states:
“[b]Linden Lab will not store any specific, identifying information. We’ll keep less exact information as a way to allow Residents, if they should so choose, to share verified aspects of their identity with others in Second Life — ie, not an exact date of birth, but an age (over 30) and not a specific address, but a city and country.[/b]”
the in-world social aspects of this are bad as well, now we have to validate each aspect of our secondlife identity publically.
i think they are wanting to merge rl with sl, so data can be assembled on sl interests and usage, then associated with your rl demographics and sold as marketing data (and given to us homeland security).
Comment by nina stepford — May 9, 2007 @ 6:42 am
I think I have the right to be anonymous when playing…
Is Big Brother comming?
Comment by Helio H Salatino — May 9, 2007 @ 6:44 am
Signed!
Comment by Beau Kappler — May 9, 2007 @ 7:04 am
I will absolutely not give such information as my national ID or passport number out to anyone. I am opposed to this new policy for many of the same reasons already stated by others.
One of my business partners says he is already planning to stop auto-renewal of his Premium membership over this. I may decide to sell of my land and join him if this goes into effect.
Comment by Haifeng Chu — May 9, 2007 @ 8:14 am
signed
Comment by Zed Karas — May 9, 2007 @ 8:44 am
I dont agree with this at all. Ialrady verrified and registered my account with SL. I used a credit card to verify my age and they withdrew money from my account once to verif that it was mine. I refuse to give my social security number out period unless its for a job interview.
Comment by Asalis Cruyff — May 9, 2007 @ 8:55 am
I most certainly don’t wish to provide Linden Lab with my passport number, that is ILLEGAL in my country! How dare they try and force me to provide them with illegal information and prevent me from accessing my own apartment if I don’t? HOW DARE THEY?!!!
Comment by GoAngel Sonic — May 9, 2007 @ 8:57 am
it’s illegal to ask for this information for identity verification purposes in many countries including several European ones and the US. I’ll leave SL before giving any part of my social security or driver’s license information. You have no business asking for this information LL.
Comment by Raske Soyer — May 9, 2007 @ 9:00 am
I agree with the rest I have been a victim of Idenity theft not to mention I know of two times SL has been tapped into so there is no way Im giving this information …
Comment by mysticalia Cheeky — May 9, 2007 @ 9:00 am
10$ and a crap load of trouble that I had to jump through with age verification issues when I joined.. I do NOT want to go through this again.
Comment by AmonWulf Stonecutter — May 9, 2007 @ 9:07 am
Don’t do this it is not necessary.
Comment by Bump Squeegee — May 9, 2007 @ 9:23 am
You take yourselves far too seriously, Linden Labs.
Do us all a favour and just forget this bad idea.
P.S. to whom it may concern, “favour” is not a spelling mistake!!
Comment by Denny Villota — May 9, 2007 @ 10:05 am
Silly idea! dont do it.
Comment by wombat roffo — May 9, 2007 @ 10:14 am
This is out right un fair to the rest of us!
Comment by Brandon — May 9, 2007 @ 10:27 am
It is a completely redundant addition and somewhat insulting… plus I just know they’ll screw over us non-US residents…
Comment by Shion Stilman — May 9, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Why make non paying visitors pay in this way?
This all about getting some more money in.
Wich is understandbly for a commericial company.
And please do not make a package where you say that you are protecting under age people.
That is truly dishonest:
Comment by Hakan Zemlja — May 9, 2007 @ 11:06 am
Dear LL dont do this, it smells to much like datagathering and thats one thing i really dislike
Comment by Gabriel — May 9, 2007 @ 11:20 am
All this is is a way for them to force us into paying them more money.
That’s why they use a “third party company” to do it.
It actually has NOTHING to do with protecting minors from things that they will infact learn about eventually anyway.
Comment by Fenix Ferraris — May 9, 2007 @ 11:22 am
NO!!!!
Comment by December Jansma — May 9, 2007 @ 11:48 am
bump!
Comment by Jeremy Duport — May 9, 2007 @ 12:16 pm
I say ‘no’ to age verification!!! I will refuse to play Second Life if that happens and refuse to pay for anything more!!! Creditcard information are more than enough!!They couldn’t handle the password security and now they want my passport information??? I think its only a new way to make money! They should look for a better working SL. With every update it’s getting more and more laggy!
Comment by Lina Vandeverre — May 9, 2007 @ 12:23 pm
Even if your data is safe today, will it be safe tomorrow when someone else buys out this integrity company? Data lives forever folks, once you give up your identity it will stay on some server forever, for future use by whoever’s in charge at that point in time. New restrictive laws are being passed all of the time. What’s legal today might be illegal tomorrow, meanwhile they’ll already have your identity for enforcement. Integrity’s website states that they are Patriot Act Compliant. Have you read the Patriot Act??? Google it and be see for yourself. A few years ago there was no Patriot Act. Think about it!!!!
Comment by Lolita Abel — May 9, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
i beleve in age verification..but not at the cost of what linden labs is proposeing…there simply must be a better way..
giveing out your socal securety number is a bad thing…it’s like handing someone the plug to your dieing grandma’s life support…it’s just something you do not do.
Comment by Elphias Kojishi — May 9, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
we dont need more intrusion, I would probably move on.
Comment by allie klees — May 9, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
This sure as hell better not go through cause I would loose a number of my friends, and my sweetheart. This is sheerly an outrage…even though there is a teen SL who gives a crap about that? I mean seriously what better to introduce youths to real life situations and better them than to cram them with people who know more about that than to stick them with the same age group and not learn a thing?
This is no more than a way of saying “ok we dont care what happens to kids as long as we keep the age groups seperate” well guess what? Its gonna really mess with everyones emotions, business, activities, SL lives…their may be mass player drops, and more than over 500 angry users.
This will also mark the downfall of SL in so many ways like for instance…if players stopped playing they would make no income for lindens and sims…and if they pulled this through it would make people more iratable cause the diffaculties of sim transfering and accessing certain “things”…and that could also cut out escort clubs and whatnot so theirs MORE people dropping or gettin pissed…so yea this is all in all a VERY bad decision.
Comment by Kit Masukami — May 9, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
This is asinine!
There is NO and I mean NO way I am going to give out my personal info over the internet! One slip up by LL (and we all know THAT has never happened) and someone gets my credit card AND SSN info in one fell swoop? Forget that, if this passes I am GONE!!
Comment by Axiom Krugman — May 9, 2007 @ 1:19 pm
Its bad enough that some people have their credit cards on file with them and there has been an instance of hacking that could have revealed that information but yet now they want us to trust them with more information like that? Personally I can understand the need to verify age, however, if their servers can be hacked and have vital information unlocked by some hacker in his basement, then requesting more info for age verification makes it easier for Real Life identity theft. Trust me, you can store a file on a server then delete it but unless you heavily destroy that part of the server, that data is recoverable in some way shape or form, meaning a top hacker could get in, recover that info and easily steal identities from multiple SL users. Trust me, this could wreck SL and bring it down from the virtual living world to nothing more than a bad memory.
Comment by Sunset Epsilon — May 9, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
As if credit card verification would not be enough. Is there big money in the game now? Personal data is a valuable resource. This not only smells…it STINKS!!!
Comment by Boy Lane — May 9, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
I personally believe that attempts to control SL will be ongoing and must be resisted. I personally have every intention of using my influence (not much at present) to fight for atavar rights. Authorities hate what they cannot control, well, TOUGH.
I love everyone at Linden.
Comment by soror Nishi — May 9, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
I’m not completely sure, as lawyers in my country even mentioned that showing naked with a cook or having sex in mature areas is being seen as pornographic and could therefore be judged, as it is not avoidable that under 18th children may be around. This is for protecting the youth, and I don’t won’t to have problems with those lawyers. On the other hand, I don’t feel well in giving the opportunity to fid out who I am and what I’m doing in SL, as this is my private second life.
Comment by Christobal Guyot — May 9, 2007 @ 3:18 pm
My word, you guys are right. Since my accident of internet + creditcard, I never put my card up ANYWHERE.
And I wouldn’t be able to use SL without? Thats bullshit and they KNOW IT.
Comment by RJ Dumart — May 9, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
hmmmm… passport number ? Nope - you can’t have it & I suspect it may be illegal for me to hand that information out anyway ! ID Cards ? We don’t have ‘em here ! What choice does this leave me ? Is it really possible for you LL people to be this stupid ??
Comment by Horus Salubrius — May 9, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
This should never have to happen, and i see no need for SL to verify your age, as we all know, we agreed to a contract, which stated that we are all 18+.
Furthermore, if Sl do go through with this age verification thing, and people still want to utilize SL, how long would it take them to check 6,110,447 proofs of identity. Another thing is, could we trust Sl to keep our personal documents safe?!
NO!
Comment by Bergil oh — May 9, 2007 @ 3:29 pm
I agree that the current system seems to be working fine: Singing up for SL makes you agree to the terms that you are over 18. That should be enough. I also posted a comment here to try and close the dang italics tag someone forgot up top :D
Comment by Jaycatt Nico — May 9, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
That’s just retarded. I can prove that I am 18, but different thing is if I want to send scan of my id’s or other nonsense to somewhere in hell.
Comment by Lumi Tuira — May 9, 2007 @ 3:53 pm
I agree with most of the comments on here, LL has my credit card info for my premium account, I can’t get a credit card if I’m underage so additional age verification for those with a premium account is a moot point. Also, I’m not in the US so don’t have a SSN and, I know you’ll gasp at this, I don’t have a passport. So where does that leave me? I certainly don’t want to have to leave the world that LL has given us. But why should I provide more information to verify my age? They have my credit card info, and I digitally sign a TOS everytime they have an update. If they are concerned about getting sued because kids are getting into the adult areas they shouldn’t be. The TOS is a contract and by signing it you agree to their terms, which happen to say that you need to be an adult. If you don’t read it before signing that’s not LL’s problem. I think parents need to be aware of what their children are doing online these days and quit trying to blame someone else for getting their kids exposed to these things.
Comment by Krystal Nosferatu — May 9, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
You don’t HAVE to give out your info - only if you want to access parcels with sexual content. I am amazed that people are freaking out so much - PORN IS AVAILABLE ELSEWHERE ON THE NET AS WELL. This will not affect you, unless you use SL for porn.
Comment by CS — May 9, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
Please leave things as they are.
Comment by Kristy Cordeaux — May 9, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Gee…. after they pull up my Driver’s License and see my real life picture is better than my avatar will I be kicked out or put back to General? Thia ia opening a whole new can of worms……
Comment by MissCheri Noel — May 9, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
I am opposed to the burden being placed on the residents to conntrol who LL is letting in. It is their responsibiliuty to police *their* platform. The day I start getting a dividend from their earnings, we can talk about me doing it for them. I agree, noone should have to go beyond what was already “okay” to get in to begin with. They opened up the gates to free accounts with only an email address to enter to boom the population, now they want us to clean up the mess. Nope don’t think I will be held responsible for their lack of foresight, nor will I do the deed of limiting access to my properties in order for them to clean up the mess. It is as so many have stated, the verification is not even something that adults will want to do. I for one will not. So I guess that means I cant limit access to my sims, or I won’t be getting in will I. hehe…;)
Comment by Jesse Murdock — May 9, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
“Get real. Any kid who’s that determined to get on-grid can just as easily “borrow” daddy’s driver’s license as he can daddy’s credit card. They’re in the same place!
You want to confirm if the person’s an adult? Fine. Contact the card holder. Their address and phone number are usually in the credit card account… you know, that thing you require just about everyone to have? Call them up and ask “oh by the way, are you yourself using Second Life, or is your child using your card to access adult content?”
I guarantee Little Johnny won’t be able to use daddy’s card again.
But seriously… tell it like it is, Linden Lab. This isn’t really an age verification system, is it? It’s a system to crack down on alt accounts. Gotta have that five bucks, don’t you! And on top of that, I get to pay for the “privilege” of having my personal information “confirmed”?”
And how long does it take to verify 6.000.000 accounts?,
I cannot buy a radio becouse the store has other adult content, major loss off clients..Who will be repaying them?
Comment by Martuschka Hoch — May 9, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
@ 532. System to crack down on alt accounts? Hardly. Linden Lab is giving residents what they have been loudly screaming for for ages.
If you had read all of what LL has said in their blog, you would have seen the following:
Do I have to verify each avatar I use?
Each individual will be able to associate their age and personal information to a limited number of accounts.
Comment by CS — May 9, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
Yes, but also no!
As many other people, I am not from the US and I have no credit card and I won’t get a credit card and no, there are no debit cards in my country either. I want to have ‘payment info on file’, in the future I do want to own a piece of land, I am already being denied these just because of Americans using a stupid, stupid system where you have to pay EXTRA just for paying! Are you kidding me?
So I’m against this age verification, but I am all for a method of being recognized without that stupid credit card system that is obsolete anyway.
Comment by Daedalus Young — May 9, 2007 @ 5:41 pm
Amen.
Comment by Jaredian Vostok — May 9, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
Amen
Comment by Jaredian Vostok — May 9, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
Once your identity info is out there, you can never take it back. The Lindens said that the info will only be held by Integrity.Aristotle.com for 2 years, but as we all know, deleting data from a hard drive doesn’t erase it completely. Your info will be available through recovery processes until it’s been overwritten many times. So we give them the info, and keep our fingers crossed for 2+ years, and just pray no one hacks or copies the info during that time. Great! I feel so much better…
Comment by Pepper Huet — May 9, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
good think to do
Comment by soalr balut — May 9, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
I agree
Comment by Gandum Hubble — May 9, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
I am opposed to the burden being placed on the residents to conntrol who LL is letting in. It is their responsibiliuty to police *their* platform. The day I start getting a dividend from their earnings, we can talk about me doing it for them. I agree, noone should have to go beyond what was already “okay” to get in to begin with. They opened up the gates to free accounts with only an email address to enter to boom the population, now they want us to clean up the mess. Nope don’t think I will be held responsible for their lack of foresight, nor will I do the deed of limiting access to my properties in order for them to clean up the mess. It is as so many have stated, the verification is not even something that adults will want to do. I for one will not. So I guess that means I cant limit access to my sims, or I won’t be getting in will I. hehe…;)
Comment by Clemente Sandoval — May 9, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
I agree
Comment by Clemente Sandoval — May 9, 2007 @ 6:24 pm
I agree this is a hassle and I do not care about the “KIDS” period. It is the parents job to watch them, My parents watched me and did not even let me see R rated movies for years until i was about 18.
If somebody kid is playing secound life and they do not know what they are doing on line .the it’s there fault if they find something they should not be seeing or doing.
The age system should stay the way it is I might have been buying some linden money and starting a pay account someday but if i have to go through all this junk and pay to be aged then forget that.
Comment by Trice Beam — May 9, 2007 @ 6:32 pm
I wholeheartedly agree that the I.D. check proposed is both invasive and overly complicated. As a non U.S. resident, there is NO way you are getting my passport number. If the proposed method of I.D. check goes through, this person - and his money will no be frequenting SL any more. Also, handing over my passport number is illegal. I love SL, but this smacks of ‘Big Brother’.
Comment by Keef Klaar — May 9, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
right on
Comment by Boston Anatine — May 9, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
I dont think it’s a good idea. Probably some parents complained about it thats my guess.
personally i would want LL to start acting on their tech problems more then any other stuff
so no lol NoooooOOOOOO
Comment by Mahonia lamar — May 9, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
Internet is a right! Violence is a choice that must be educated punished!
Comment by Akten — May 9, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
sl cant handle there own succes that WE made for them so iff they wanna loose me go ahead
and give us little more trouble.
Comment by bbert bert — May 9, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
‘No’ to age verification!
Comment by Qvic Qinan — May 9, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
Hey there… I can’t believe they’re trying to pull this on us. I certainly hope this doesn’t go through. Down with age verification.
Comment by Solstice Rakosi — May 9, 2007 @ 7:30 pm
SL seriously needs to check with their attorney about the legalities of their decisions. Demanding social security numbers and other private information is against the law in the USA. But then when has the Lindens ever listened to anybody with common sense.
Comment by Phil Priestman — May 9, 2007 @ 7:46 pm
What the hell? I come back after a 2 month hiatus to find this bull shit? Well, SL, what if you’re like me and don’t exactly have an ID? This is Grade A+ bullshit. I’m so reminded of a ‘Big Brother is watching you’ kinda thing. Besides, giving out stuff like that is illegal isn’t it?? BOYCOTT I SAY!!!
Comment by Kisala Hyun — May 9, 2007 @ 7:50 pm
This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of. I feel a fork coming on.
Comment by Val Salome — May 9, 2007 @ 7:57 pm
When I first signed up and paid for my service and made investments in SL I was able to travel the whole grid with exception to places that the property owners restricted access to.
Now I am paying the same amount and will have less services available to me if I agree to opt out on this intrusion of my personal privacey.
I am against this too.
Comment by Bodewadmi Sands — May 9, 2007 @ 8:00 pm
To 528.
False. The Linden Age-verification plan will effectively force me to quit all 5 of my SL jobs, of which only ONE is even directly related to soft nudity (model magazine). I cannot perform any of these jobs if I choose not to supply LL’s third party with my info, which is most prudent seeing that demanding my SSN and drivers’ for anything but government and job use - wherein the full explanation of what the info will be used for must be supplied - is punishable by law in my country.
Comment by Jes Bergbahn — May 9, 2007 @ 8:10 pm
This is some bullshit this is! I’m not giving any more info than I have nor any more money than I have. Fuck you Linden Labs!
Comment by Dracose — May 9, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
not sure what to say xP but i find it kinda dumb since they dont have the right to know so much info =x
things are kinda going to their heads.
Comment by fuzzy — May 9, 2007 @ 8:47 pm
Social security numbers should not be used to verify age. Social security numbers can be used by theives to steal someone’s identity and ruin their credit. An individual should only need to provide thier social security number to the government, an employer or a financial institution. Other adult websites use credit card numbers as a legal means of age verification. LL should not request sensetive information such as a social security number from its customers for a simple age verfication. If LL insists on creating an additional age verification protocal, LL should use a method that does not require social security numbers.
Comment by Lothar — May 9, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
thats same shit as dictatory - ppl should be free on world - and not pressed
Comment by Christine — May 9, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
This is crazy, we should not have to give out any more personal details, it is just more to get lost or hacked. I already use a credit card for sl that should be enough.
Comment by Anonymous — May 9, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
Fuck this shit.
Comment by Kare — May 9, 2007 @ 9:22 pm
ohh - sorry - i forgot - thats same as ” Fidel Castro ” - ” Adolf Hitler ” ” Franko” ” Stalin” ” Napoleon” ” Lenin” ” Nero” ” …….
did
are the Lindens now in ” God Olymp” - are they totally blown up in head ?? today evening i will pray for them —————
Comment by Christine — May 9, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
I pay to be on SL and own land, if they start this, I will be selling it all and finding someplace else to chat and have fun with my friends ;.;
Comment by Amy Cela — May 9, 2007 @ 10:00 pm
Signed.
Comment by Sonata Spectre — May 9, 2007 @ 10:25 pm
You complain about something that won’t stop, you throw insults that will go unheard by LL. It does no good to throw a fit and complain out loud, it’s not the player’s thoughts that LL cares about. Honestly, I wholeheartedly disagree with this new verification system myself, but I do understand why they are pressing it on us. It’s in the interest of keeping adults separate from the kids. The world is crooked, enough said on that. This system isn’t as necessarily safe as they seem, though. Yes, your information could be stolen, yes, you could get financially fucked. I don’t see this as a lasting addition to LL, but it most likely will be implemented for a short time at least. Other faults with this is that it’s not hard for a kid to simply dig through their mother’s purse for that little shitty piece of compressed cardboard that we have to hold close or take the chance of never being employed, never getting a bank account, a loan, or anything for that matter. Hell, some people even take the risk of having it put on their Driver’s License, making it that much easier for the child. Corruption is unavoidable, no matter how hard one tries to prevent it. Best thing one can do is bite their tongue and watch the SL community crumble. When and if it does, I can’t guarantee that it’s something LL will try fixing seeing as how it’s already made one hell of a profit for as many flaws as it has. Quit trippin’ and watch some failure. :P
Comment by Tripp Plunkett — May 9, 2007 @ 10:26 pm
I do not trust LL to do anything right and I positively refuse to give them any personal info. I am in the process of packing up my build and selling my land. the info they have on me is fine for taking my money every month, but they are going to totally destroy SL with this bonehead move. there should be no underage people on the grid now, if they are there it’s the lindens fault, I won’t fix their problems, or be on SL if they want more from me. any kid can steal their parents ID and get verified. It is a FACT that LL cannot keep data secure - I WON’T trust them, I pay their salaries, but no more - this is the straw…
Bedrock Owner Tigey Honey
Comment by Tigey Honey — May 9, 2007 @ 10:46 pm
why are they adding more features to get messed up and possibly compromize our privacy wheh they cant even fix the existing problems in the game (like teleports), I’m a paying resident and if they cant verify my age through my visa info then they have WAY more problems than letting a few kids slip into mature areas, besides if these kids are getting in dispite their parents objection, then where are the parents and what are they doing thats more important than taking care of their children??
Comment by Hostile Electricteeth — May 9, 2007 @ 10:54 pm
Ok I just started this game last friday and enjoying the freedom this game has. I have been this involved in a Massive Multiplayer games since the heyday of Ultima Online. If this does go through I don’t see how I would justify staying in this wonderful world, or consider paying premium.
Comment by Kenneth — May 9, 2007 @ 10:58 pm
It’s parents responsibility to know what their kids are up to, it goes the same for any internet activity. Kids are in these rooms on purpose, they can handle alot more than you give them credit for and I know I’m a mother. What you are doing is bad for business all over. You’re restricting what type of business can operate in here, cause I’m sure rl businesses don’t want to give out their details. Real business, real world.
Comment by Shalee Carter — May 9, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
These measures will only hinder the already weak economy…
Comment by Ryenmaru Kuhn — May 10, 2007 @ 12:12 am
I wholeheartedly agree with all the comments listed here, and hereby add my voice to them. Lets keep RL shit out of SL. Really - isnt SL supposed to be just a GAME? Isn’t that what is always stressed when people first come on board here? Isn’t anyone here familiar with VIDEO GAMES these days? Some of them are horrifically violent and graphically sexual, but it seems like no ones trying to police them…in fact, they seem to be todays worldwide babysitter, which, may be the answer to why so many kids are experiencing loneliness and isolation - because there is NO PARENTING going on, and it is a totally one-sided experience!
SL at the onset seemed to be radically different, in that it seemed to champion everyones freedom of rights - in this world, you get to do what you want, when you want, as long as you don’t piss anyone else off, because if you do, you get ejected. Now that seemed perfectly logical and fair - the end truly justifying the means. In essence, a very Utopian way of thinking. Today, as I read this blog about Identity Verification, I cringe. And I am outraged!! Amazon.com doesn’t even ask me for my SS#, and I have every right to buy pornography online if I want. If this is indeed supposed to be a GAME, then why all the hullabaloo? With the advent of identity theft, and privacy issues proliferating, I would think that SL would be able to come up with a better plan of action.
Think on this: What you are proposing actually ENCOURAGES the group of people (i.e. pedophiles, sexual deviants, predators etc.) to prey on that part of SL that would be considered at risk. Imagine…if the pedophiles don’t want to register (and they won’t) then they will be forced to find other ways to “get off”, i.e., they will most likely find a way onto Teen SL…a place where we, as consenting, law-abiding adults in SL, DO NOT want them to be.
You are asking the majority of SL residents to give up their identity and privacy just so you can deflect litigation down the road. I agree, to a certain extent, that there may be a need to legally separate the “men from the boys” so to speak, but this is not the way. I think we all agree here that we, as Residents are forced to provide a credit card for authorization when we want to buy stuff - that should be enough! Believe me, it’s not easy to move around in SL (or go to those fancy sex shops) without cash. And most kids don’t have access to CC’s; unless of course, they’re stealing Mom’s ID without her knowing. But is there any real way to police that in a virtual society?? It’s hard enough to do that in RL. If you are truly a virtual realm, then there needs to be a different way of implementing policy here without haranguing and hectoring your paying virtual community. Paypal has all my pertinent information; I use it in SL, and that should be proof enoguh for SL that I am a consenting adult of age and free to roam as I wish.
Additionally, I would HOPE that LL has the sense to come to its residents for ideas and perhaps create a virtual forum on this matter. Since it has been stressed that we, as Residents, are the landowners and that we are all personally accountable and responsible for this Life, I propose that you, Linden labs, do the following:
1) Create a thinktank, and appoint a committee to figure out a way to enact policy here without subjugating their residents.
2) Offer up a plan of action and then HAVE ITS RESIDENTS VOTE ON IT!! Since SL is run and built by its residents, don’t we have a say in the matter?
3) DON’T make it so easy for a kid to come online into SL. As some mature adult websites have a standard disclaimer before entering, maybe post that BEFORE you log on, make them accept the terms of responsibility and then you can dodge the legality issues later on.
4) The residents who are ALREADY here on SL should be inviolate. I’m assuming that the reason why all this is happening is because there has been a sudden proliferation of residents coming on line, and LL needs to be ready with the legal arsenal. I am all for that, but why make all of us suffer because of a lack of preparedness on LL’s part?
I got into SL to have fun. No, I’m not a sex freak, nor am I on for vigilanteism. I’m just a working, adult woman who enjoys travelling SL, creating a business, making some money and finding friends. But, nope, sorry - I’m not gonna give up my RL identity just so I can have fun. I might as well go ahead and post my SS# on the internet and say “ok, boys, have fun too!”
The other issue here has definitely darker undertones. Because the “3rd Party” you refer to as information holders is none other than Big Brother, and this can be construed as yet another way the feds have to look over your shoulder. I can see that that utulizing their “services” would scare off a large part of your community, since a lot of the people I’ve encountered here seem to be quite savvy in things like this. Virtual Federales? Nah, now THAT’S a little too real for me…
Anyway, I do hope you will reflect on this and all the other posts here. Please remember that since we, as Residents, are paying for our time here, we SHOULD and NEED to be a part of the decision making in SL.
My apologies for the long post, guys….
Comment by Roisin Zenovka — May 10, 2007 @ 12:12 am
i am one of those people that will give my ss/dl number to the checkout clerk HOWEVER
not for gorceries bought and paid for three years ago and not when threatened with not being able to shop in half the store. i know when i’ve been slapped, just mebbe it’s time to slap back. LL W/we gonna have a hayday with this one
Comment by Bedsee Hannibal — May 10, 2007 @ 12:14 am
I will be one of those in line to have LL brought down for Violations of the Social Security act if they go this way. Their contract and agreement to hold LL not at fault for any violaitons of those contracts DOES cover everything. No need for more BS. Hay LL how about you spend less time screwing around with your player base and more time fixing the bugs in your own systems?
Comment by Phallie Eponym — May 10, 2007 @ 12:38 am
i am against this idea for age verification… all that needs to be done is limit access to Mature parcels to verified account holders! Periond… thats all thats necessary! Kiddies can steal CC’s or DL’s just as eaisly! If someone ueses a stolen CC its a felony so i believe that is protection enought!
Comment by Lota Lyon — May 10, 2007 @ 12:44 am
When YOU show me YOURS MR LL President, i’ll show you mine, until that day comes go play with yourself in a flagged portion of SL
Comment by ayla Heart — May 10, 2007 @ 12:51 am
Fantastic!!! Yet another wonderful feature thought up by linden labs to overcomplicate the second lives of all its residents. What could possibly be better then that? Hmm what about the fact that we’ll be expected to pay for it, and then be forced to deal with the fall out when this, like so many other things in secondlife of late, goes awry?
First of all, I, like every single person I know, don’t care much if we’re charged a hundred dollars or a linden for this ‘service’, either way it’s still asking us to shell out to help deal with a problem that linden labs created out of their own ignorance to the situation from the beginning. Not to mention that all of us with pay accounts have already offered up our credit card and banking info and shelled out stupid amounts of money to be a part of a world that a good friend of mine often refers to as something built by munchkins on L.S.D. That information is apparently good enough to take our money, but not good enough to act as age verification. I personally had to jump through freaking hoops to validate my account last September, and because of second life I now have a whole lot of personal info just floating around in cyber space that I have NEVER previously tied to any of my online actions. And I am seriously curious as to how the creators of our fine world could have over looked this little age matter from the beginning. Sure, let’s create a world where people have the freedom to do and create whatever their sick little minds desire, but NOT bother to look into this whole age thing, thus opening us up to countless possible lawsuits in the future. Brilliant folks, bravo.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m all for keeping children out of adult places (hell, while we’re at it why not do away with the creepy child avs? Another pet peeve, but not the matter at hand) but not like this. Got to say, I am so far against this idea that I’m ready to pack up and find myself another universe to recreate. If linden labs had any kind of reliability in their history as far as I’ve seen, I may feel differently, but all I have seen of late is a whole lot of ‘what the hell are they doing now’s, and frankly, I’m just not really interested in giving up anymore personal info to a company that I feel doesn’t care about it’s customers, let alone their safety and privacy near so much as they do about our dollars.
Though its my guess that either a court order or legal advisors have put this little ball in motion, surely someone sitting at head office has the intelligence to see what a horrible mistake implementing this age verification wave is business wise. You recall the Titanic right? Can anyone say ‘jump ship’? Come on people, we live in a virtual community that encourages people to let loose all inhibitions and be/do/say/act how they feel. We have people parading around in ball gags and silks, men dressing, acting and living as women, people decked out as animals and vampires and any number of other interesting creatures, and behind these avs safely shielded by their computer screens, many of these people are no doubt business men and women, housewives, teachers and lawyers and doctors. How many of these respectable types really want to pass every shred of their personal information across the internet, let alone to a company that (yes I have said this already) does not inspire trust? I play a simple female in sl.. Lo and behold, I am a simple female in rl.. I still don’t feel confident in sharing said info to a system so entirely full of flaws and screw ups that in most cases could be avoided if the linden think tank cared more about the world we pay for then the money we pay.
The fact that you’re tagging the word ‘optional’ on this doesn’t make me feel any better about the situation. My home sim, though at least 90% pg contains its own share of hidden ‘adult’ areas. In order to even go to my home, I’d have to submit to the age verification. Every person out there that is of perfectly legal age, but has lost and yet to replace ID will automatically be barred from their own home sims should this be the case, as well as many other places they have always frequented. And all the while, every single kid out there that actually wants to be in the adult sections of the grid will find a way to get there. Not to hard to sneak mommy or daddy’s ID info while they’re backs are turned.. god knows a sixteen year old version of myself would have done so easily enough.
To sum it up, I don’t believe this age verification wave will do a damn thing about keeping the kids out, but it sure as hell will piss off, lock out and upset a whole lot of us of legal age, thus forcing us to take our money elsewhere. Please rethink this before you destroy what we’ve been paying for all this time.
Comment by Aries Bricklin — May 10, 2007 @ 12:52 am
I am against the form of age verification proposed…er wait..shoved down our throats…by Linden Labs. Do your homework…Wired Magazine busted “Intergrity, Inc.” years ago for selling political information (voter registration information) and when confronted they lied..and lied and lied some more.
No thanks. I guess its true what they say - three years is about the life span of an online experience before the creators kill it with nerfs and bad choices.
Comment by Luve Schack — May 10, 2007 @ 1:28 am
@528
You don’t HAVE to give out your info - only if you want to access parcels with sexual content. I am amazed that people are freaking out so much - PORN IS AVAILABLE ELSEWHERE ON THE NET AS WELL. This will not affect you, unless you use SL for porn.
Comment by CS — May 9, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
————————————————
I don’t think you’ve thought through the implications of this at all. I have yet to see a definition of “Adult Content” provided from LLs, but the threat is there to ban owners who don’t flag properly. Therefore to be on the safe side a lot of people will most likely flag their parcels & sims as “adult content”. That’s one scenario. As has already been mentioned - I wouldn’t be able to buy a radio or TV in SL as those stores also sell pornography. Are they going to go the expense & bother of seperating their business onto different parcels ? I predict many will not - they will just flag as “adult content”. What about private islands ? As it stands it looks like a parcel with some adult content will cause the entire island to be labelled as “adult content”. The whole thing is fucked. And why the need for this new classification anyway ? “Adult Content” on a website that is supposed to ONLY have adults on it ? It’s total madness. Are they planning to merge the teen grid into the main grid or something?
Comment by Horus Salubrius — May 10, 2007 @ 1:40 am
I’m against this age verification. i dont trust anyone with my personal info
Comment by Seth Caligari — May 10, 2007 @ 1:48 am
It does affect me CS, my land has some adult items that i bought and paid for on land that is mature also paid for with this two year old account and my cc. (i actually have an account that’s older) Why i am “freaking out” is for a few reasons. Firstly this wasn’t the deal when i signed up three years ago, according to the new rules i will not be able to have mature land, it will need be flagged adult. Now…all fine and good BUT what of my friends who are noobs and just wanna see the place, what of those who live in nations where this ID sharing is aginst the law, what of those who just like me plain damn good and well don’t want to do it and frankly shouldn’t have to. i could literally vouch for these people, i know them, have heard their voices know a bit about them etc. If LL wishes to change up the rules on us midstream they better think long and hard on just how they wish to do this. Because net law is new law and nobody really knows how it will go but i’m betting my rights to privacy against their rights to pull the rug from under an adult who has spent literally thousands here. i have a reasonable right to expect my contracted service with LL to continue undisturbed unless i break the TOS and i have not done that. So put that in your pipe with whatever else you’re smoking and when Linden Labs ceases to be because adults were unfairly denied a service that we’ve helped to build all these many years i promise not to remind you that you’re the one freaking out.
Comment by Bedsee Psaltery — May 10, 2007 @ 2:18 am
this is rediculeous, you just need a valid dl or state id. don’t bend for bush, stand tall for the 1st amendent
Comment by Razor Shark — May 10, 2007 @ 3:04 am
I agree. Adult content is important component of SL. Contract was signed upfront stating you were over 18 and that should be sufficient.
Comment by Tucker Whitfield — May 10, 2007 @ 3:42 am
i would like to change my opinion here just a bit since better info has been released since i last commented on this issue. as is for people in US giving out the last four digits of your SSN is not illegal. if it were the entire number however then it would be illegal. infact most services such as say paying your bills online such as power, water, cable/internet etc… all usually require you to submit that part of your number for identification purposes anyway. same thing with paying bills over the phone.
so this doesn’t really bother me that much. what i’m more concerened about is that you have to pay them for this service an as of yet undetermined amount which is total bull. and i have 2 accounts each with a different email address. (my primary SL account=my primary email address, secondary account=secondary address) so then i want to know if i would have to pay twice to verify each one? if i do i will leave cuz as i said paying is BS and paying twice is even more BS.
so basically i’m still somewhat opposed to this thing just for different reasons then before.
Comment by Drayko DeSantis — May 10, 2007 @ 3:46 am
Credit Card information seems to be adequate for every other age verification website. Why does this have to be any different?
Comment by Zestril Taov — May 10, 2007 @ 4:14 am
I dont understand the need too have more verification of age than the porn websites do? It is unneeded and intrusive.
Comment by Zestril Taov — May 10, 2007 @ 4:21 am
I am not going to give my details to anyone, the whole point of sl for me is the anonymity to do as I please. My personal information is private and is going to remain so. I’ll quit SL and take my money with me before I give MY real details to anyone connected with LL or their agents.
Comment by Ashleigh Willis — May 10, 2007 @ 4:30 am
This is stupidity. This is madness. This is an outrage. If a hacker got in and got to our passwords, and although LL claims no Credit Card information was accessed, the last thing I would want them having after that would be my DL or my SS if that situation happens again. Let alone the contract we signed, which they could file legal charges against a party if they found to be under age, on top of that, PORN WEBSITES DON’T EVEN REQUIRE THIS MUCH, NOR DOES ANY MMO OR ANY OTHER ONLINE SERVICE! (Minus tax information and personal banking) Get a grip LL.
Comment by Itenhe Demar — May 10, 2007 @ 4:39 am
i agree totally
Comment by saunjie — May 10, 2007 @ 4:53 am
Stop touching me! What happened to LL’s hands off approach?
Comment by Strange Ranger — May 10, 2007 @ 5:34 am
im 26 and if i choosen to not use my CC its not for age verification like a lot of ppls, just coz, i dont want to buy linden thats all!!
Comment by vaixav mclaglen — May 10, 2007 @ 5:35 am
is the contract and a CC number not enough?
Comment by Sigma Delcon — May 10, 2007 @ 5:46 am
I wont trust such a course of action!
SL has proven unable to keep passwords
from becoming public.
I will not give anything more private
especially personal information such
as liscense, passports or SSNs.
I’m 19 and those who are of age have
a right to keep important information
to themselves.
If a casualty occurs and it’s due to SL
there will be the possiblity of a law suit
and greater trouble for what this movement is worth!
Comment by Aoki Okina — May 10, 2007 @ 5:58 am
This is ridiculous. Credit card info is ENOUGH. I will find another chat program to use if LL puts this into practice. I spend A LOT of money every month and I’m sure many many other people who do the same will choose to go elsewhere also.
Comment by Xianna Deledda — May 10, 2007 @ 6:10 am
This is silly. I guess they don’t realize how big an invasion of privacy this is.
Comment by Yamato Yohkoh — May 10, 2007 @ 6:45 am
agree!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by best Rau — May 10, 2007 @ 7:37 am
It’s the begining of a tirany?
Comment by Tobedeus Graves — May 10, 2007 @ 7:39 am
KEEP SL A FREE WORLD!STOP TIRANY!I WILL LEAVE SL BEFORE I WILL GIVE OUT MY PRIVATE INFO!AND ILL TAKE MY $50+ USD PER MO WITH ME!
Comment by dude hogfather — May 10, 2007 @ 8:05 am
Signed, and agree with most of the above.
Comment by Angel Fitzgerald — May 10, 2007 @ 9:39 am
That is rediculous. The honesty of those who play should be enough, there is no reason why SL has to go big brother on us and start regulating. You have my john handcock.
Comment by Takkun Bade — May 10, 2007 @ 12:32 pm
Well I for one won’t be giving out my passport details to these people.
There are basically 3 ways to earn money in SL, you dance, you escort or you make stuff to sell.
For those of us unverified residents who either can’t or won’t buy lindens and aren’t able to make stuff to sell we will have no source of income = nothing to spend.
Picture how this is going to effect the whole SL economy. The circulation of money is going to dwindle, numerous hard working residents who scrape a living selling clothes will go out of business. Those who make “adult” objects will see their customer base cut dramatically.
I will allow you to draw you own conclusions about the potential outcome of this & I am sure there are residents reading this petition who are better qualified than I to judge what is likey to happen.
I for one am however cashing out my lindens before this whole fiasco is implemented…
Comment by SarahLouise Ellison — May 10, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
As I’m writing this, the current hot topic is the adult age players reported by the German media. So verification would have prevented this? No. Is it possible for an unsupervised minor to steal Mom or Dad’s info and get verified? Yes. So we expose our true identity to the databases of the world for what reason??? The only real reason is so that government authorities can track the movement of money through SL and trace the movement to the actual individuals engaged in these transactions. The SL home page proudly lists:
US$ Spent Last 24h: $1,591,738
What government wouldn’t be interested in this kind of money? Think about it!
Comment by Veronica Vansant — May 10, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
Last month, the Lindens invited the FBI in to check out some SL casinos in an effort to determine the legality of SL casino activity in the US.(Google it)I can imagine the agent saying “Wait, how much money is involved? And just who are these people???” Fast forward one month and out of nowhere we are slapped with verification under the guise of protecting children (which it won’t). Come on people 2+2=???. The only thing that verification would accomplish is the real time tracking of money moving between individuals (and countries). Like the above poster pointed out, that’s a lot of money. From the authority’s point of view this info and the amounts involved is irresistible, Casino or not.
Comment by Brenda Leigh — May 10, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Providing this information will not prevent minors from access. If they can steal daddy’s CC, then they can steal his SSN and DL. By using a third party, Linden can claim “not our fault!” if the data is hacked and/or stolen.
Comment by Eamonn Innis — May 10, 2007 @ 4:20 pm
Seems unenforceable and unnecessary
Comment by Jos Ling — May 10, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
When I first heard about the Lindens intention of wanting to reinforce the age verification system, alarm bells went off big time.
When international law allows for access to every other website displaying explicit sexual content by simple subscription of a contract by clicking the “I agree” button, I really cannot conceive of any valid moral, ethical or otherwise legal reason why the Lindens should want to be holier than the pope through implementation of additional age verification systems, unless of course they would serve execution of a hidden agenda, whose contents would more likely than not have ramifications of a financial nature.
Comment by Gatekeeper Gustafson — May 10, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
I AGREE THIS IS BS!
Comment by Loud Howl — May 10, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
no way of giving them anything. If they don’t trust me that I am adult, why should I trust them with my data. After all, personal data is more valuable (in the terms of money) than their trust in me.
Comment by dandellion Kimban — May 10, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
Damn right, I feel the same way
Comment by Sinjo Drakes — May 10, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
THEY CAN NOT PLAY PARENT FOR EVEYONE, THAT SHOULD FALL BACK ON THEM!!
Comment by Skylar Fitzgerald — May 10, 2007 @ 5:43 pm
Are they going mad. Its a game!!!!!
Comment by Giles DuCasse — May 10, 2007 @ 5:43 pm
I don’t want to be put on files like a criminal just for a game. I don’t want to play under big brother eye.
Comment by Dominique — May 10, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
Nay no never. If this goes through I will leave SL. As will everyone else. IT WILL SIGN THE DEATH OF SL.
Comment by O G — May 10, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
signed
Comment by Digital Kaos — May 10, 2007 @ 6:40 pm
Every obstruction of the freedown in a fantasy world is unacceptable
Comment by TABARE Prieto — May 10, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
I agree
Comment by Sivent Allen — May 10, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
I have more turst in LL than into an 3rd party outsourcer, they have no relation to the stored data, for Linden Labs we are still customers and its worth to save our prvate Data against abuse. But at least what’s our privacy for an outsourcer ? What if an other company want to have access to the database ll may would fight against that but an outsourcer wich has no relation to the stored data is just interested in making more money !
Comment by Keris Sieyes — May 10, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
This age verification is just bulshit
Comment by Tonia mayo — May 10, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
This age verification is just bulshit from LL
Comment by Tonia Mayo — May 10, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
i agree
Comment by conQuant — May 10, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
Wow… me and my friend are really pissed about this. damn this is the dumbest thing they have pulled yet. the constant bugs and problems are one thing, but this is just too far
Comment by Fortify Clift — May 10, 2007 @ 11:58 pm
signed
Comment by Akhera — May 11, 2007 @ 12:07 am
Bad idea.
Comment by Brent Finn — May 11, 2007 @ 12:35 am
This has been yet another post by me… but they are performing the age verification because of a child pornography thing… a VIRTUAL child pornography incident. What is funny, the two performing the act were 57 and 27 year olds with avi’s that looked like the such acts…. So tell me, age verification, does it verify video game age? does it verify what you can do behind closed doors?… SL… you are still stupid
Comment by Keys Zhukovsky — May 11, 2007 @ 12:42 am
I support this petition against the barrage of Fail and AIDS that LL plans to unleash.
Comment by Murderfiend Juutilainen — May 11, 2007 @ 12:57 am
This is such a bad idea. It will drive people from the site. There are plenty of alternatives to add age verifications without the fee and photo ID.
Comment by Lance Cydrome — May 11, 2007 @ 1:27 am
As a grandmother closer in age to the wooden box than the cradle, I came into SL to roleplay, push boundaries, and experiment with many things I couldn’t or wouldn’t do in RL. I enjoy many kinds of edgy play, but I have no difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality, and rarely give anyone an insight into the RL me.
Yes, I came in unverified, to see what it was all about, but was well-prepared to give my credit card details and invest substantial amounts in the game if it proved worthwhile. However, this latest identification fiasco is a gross intrusion on privacy and will expose players to potential identity fraud and data manipulation. There is no way I would provide this type of information to businesses in my own country, far less to a dubious data collection agency in the good old U.S of A.
I won’t repeat what has already adequately been expressed above, but will add that this appears to be a none-too-subtle attempt to reduce the ‘adult’ (read x-rated) content on the grid. If LL were serious about a user-directed virtual reality, they should have imposed controls on anything they were uncomfortable with at the outset, rather than coming up with knee-jerk responses post-event.
A truly unconstrained social experiment in virtual reality would have to be allowed to fail on the basis of the dystopia its residents created, rather than simply being expected (presumably for financial reasons) to succeed. Humans are notoriously bad at implementing and/or sustaining broader, alternative visions in RL, and a quick chat with a first-year psychology student would have enlightened LL as to the paths their residents were likely to go down.
Give your average human being the opportunity to create Utopia, and sadly they’ll erect a shopping mall, commodify sex and generally replicate the consumerist trappings of the RL of the western world. All of this would have been entirely predictable. Sticking your finger in the dyke by introducing draconian age-verification requirements is not the solution!
Comment by suzaki_bechir — May 11, 2007 @ 1:55 am
What Linden Labs is trying to do here isn’t called for or acceptable. Instituting fascist-like policies based on the exception to the rule is an insult, not to mention being just plain wrong. The question is: how much are the corporate lackeys who dreamed this nonsense up willing to lose in order to make Second Life yet another extension of our already over-intrusive global society?
If enacted, I will liquidate what I have and do business elsewhere. The whole point behind seeking a “second life” will suddenly be an oxymoron, or a complete contradiction in terms at the very least. Wanting to protect minors is a noble idea, but this is the wrong way to go about it. It doesn’t take a genius to know that loose lips can indeed sink ships, and consequently, with a very tiny tidbit of information that is NOT necessary to conduct affairs within Second Life being forced upon its membership by way of a “do it or else” dictatorial decree, many can and will suffer needlessly. Those incidents will likely engender lawsuits as well.
If children deserve protection and are entitled to have their privacy kept sacred (of which most civilized societies would agree), then it stands to reason that the same be applied to adults. This is not the way.
Comment by Able Forder — May 11, 2007 @ 2:25 am
That is just wrong so I say no too. :P
Comment by LexCoyote Under — May 11, 2007 @ 2:29 am
I shall not give my personal information for money! Give me privacy, or give me Death!
Comment by FoxMerc Winkoop — May 11, 2007 @ 2:38 am
Signed. This whole concept of “age verification” is wrong. As previously stated by many, LL has my credit card information and that should be enough proof.
Comment by Windsong Clary — May 11, 2007 @ 2:45 am
None at this time.
Comment by Alek Karas — May 11, 2007 @ 2:52 am
SL suddenly lost its appeal
Comment by darke_lane — May 11, 2007 @ 3:02 am
I support this
Comment by lula villouta — May 11, 2007 @ 3:25 am
They wrangled my CC info from me 1 year ago tomorrow. I flat refuse to give them anymore information. Besides, with SS#’s not valid ID (the SS Office wont even take it as ID — AND THEY ISSUE IT!)what next, DL#, ID#, Blood, (would gladly give urine at this point..but not in a cup!)
DNA?
I think LL has verification under control
*roll eyes*
Comment by Gotobug Fairymeadow — May 11, 2007 @ 3:42 am
Theyre shooting themselves in the foot with this one. Its going to be so much controversy and work for themselves that they’ll wish they never thought of it. I’m a private person…i gave them the info needed to get on SL like everyone else. I dont want to give out more personal information and in greater detail as well. It’s necessary to get a loan from a bank IRL…but it isn’t necessary to play a role-playing GAME…role play…as in NOT REAL…*rolls eyes*
Comment by Midnight Heston — May 11, 2007 @ 4:06 am
I have thrown some real world dollars into Second Life, but I’ll probably move on to another venue. I’m not really interested in cybersex, but there was always the possibilty I might find a kindred spirit to flirt with and ultimately to make love to. I’m not going to risk submitting personal information just to play with paper dolls, though.
It was a nice experiment. I learned a lot about myself. Thanks. Someone else will no doubt come up with something even better soon.
Comment by Weston Graves — May 11, 2007 @ 4:58 am
This is going to be a giant failure!!
Comment by Raven Welesa — May 11, 2007 @ 5:04 am
I agree in full.
Comment by Twysted Vixen — May 11, 2007 @ 5:04 am
Agreed
Comment by Vakir Svarog — May 11, 2007 @ 5:10 am
I agree.
Comment by Nova Mikita — May 11, 2007 @ 5:12 am
They have my CC and my assurance that I am over 18. If thats not enough, then I will remain unverified and just accept I will be banned from certain areas
Comment by Partington Gould — May 11, 2007 @ 5:13 am
I understand the spirit of this new policy by LL, but I am 21 years of age, I am more than aware of the dangers that the free sharing of information (the internet) can have. The last thing I want to do is have to prove my age to play a game, and if I cannot have freedom in SL I will simply find another game to play, as censoring myself or my activities simply because a minor might be on the other end of the av is not fair to me as a mature adult. Children should not be playing SL in the first place and if they are it is a failure on the parent’s side and not ours, the end user. Don’t punish us for someone else’s incompetent parenting.
Comment by Nar Drake — May 11, 2007 @ 5:14 am
this idea is basically a “cover our ass so we wont get sued” farce…i myself am WAY over the age of 18,and will not give ONE iota of this info to Linden Labs..this is pure and total bullshit
Comment by Russell Hagoromo — May 11, 2007 @ 5:19 am
I think SL is being over-zealous–and found another way to charge us for something to line their pockets with. Second Life has been a place where we were all welcome everywhere, have never been restricted to not be able to go anywhere, seems they are taking more away? Whats next? We have to verify that we all have blond hair and blue eyes? I understand the under 18 concern, but really, the really smart kiddies that do this will find a way around it.
Comment by scarlet vavvom — May 11, 2007 @ 5:22 am
What Ll is doing is wrong, and they know it is wrong, they need to be stopped before we have to give them mor einformation. it is ridiculous, and they will lose thousands if not millions of users if they continue ontheir path. pretty soon, they will be only businesses on SL, and it won’t be fun any more. STOP THE LINDENS FROM VERIFYING AGE! THEY CAN’T AND NOTHING THEY CAN SAY, WILL PROVE AGE OVER THE NET.
Comment by SilverPetDragon Sukra — May 11, 2007 @ 5:25 am
Most online games, you agree to certain things before you can join that game, that way the responsiblity is taken from the game itself, it falls back onto the player.
What the Lindens are doing now is just another addition to take MORE money from us, they want more money, they should pay for a more reliable & stable Server.
Comment by Posmo Okey — May 11, 2007 @ 5:27 am
Linden Labs is located in San Francisco, State of California, United
States of America. And is subject to the laws and constitution of the
United States of America, and the Constitution of the State of
California.
Child pornography is an exception to First Amendment freedoms because
it exploits and abuses our nation’s youth.
1 The latest trend in that industry is “virtual child” pornography.
“Virtual child” pornography does not use real children or images of
real identifiable children. When the object of desire is not a child,
but merely a combination of millions of computer pixels crafted by a
skilled artist, can the government ban this allegedly victimless
creation?
2 Congress enacted the Child Pornography Prevention Act of 1996
(”CPPA”) to fight the ongoing battle against the sexual exploitation of
children.
3 However, Congress drafted the CPPA very broadly, and with the
advancement of technology the statute may encroach on First Amendment
rights to free speech.
4 Most people would agree that the use of actual children in the
production of sexually explicit videos or photographs is grotesque
child abuse. The question remains whether the government may
criminalize the production and possession of “virtual child”
pornography if no child is used in the production of pornography and
the images are completely fictional.
In Ashcroft v. The Free Speech Coalition, the U.S. Supreme Court held
that the government may not criminalize such action because the
production of “virtual child” pornography does not sexually abuse an
actual child.
5 The Court rejected the government’s argument that “virtual child”
pornography encourages pedophiles to abuse children. This argument is
the intellectual equivalent of a claim that Romeo and Juliet encourages
teenagers to kill themselves and should be banned from high school
reading lists. More people would find greater social value in Romeo and
Juliet than in “virtual child” pornography, but if there is some social
or artistic value to a piece of work, it should be protected under the
freedom of speech clause of the First Amendment.
6 “Virtual child” pornography must be distinguished from actual child
pornography in order to be protected under the First Amendment. The
Supreme Court held the CPPA to be unconstitutional by making the
distinction between “virtual” and actual child pornography and by doing
so, expanded the field of free speech
Ageplay isn’t listed in the dictionary as “Sexual Intercourse” or as
“child pornography” or as Child Abuse. Nor is it a cause and effect for
pedophilia. It is just what it states, “Ageplay” Role playing an age
different from your own.
if you are 57 roleplaying (roleplaying is a fantasy) a 14yo is this
ageplay. According to the Thought police yes.
if you are 25 roleplaying a 35yo is this ageplay. Of course it isn’t
but both individuals are over the age of consent.
But wait - - the 57 year old is over the age of consent also– oh but
he’s roleplaying a 14yo, but he has to be an adult (over the age of 18
in real life to even be allowed to play Second Life) If he’s an adult
why would he be expelled from SL for haveing fantasy sex with another
adult regardless of a age (since both are consenting adults). but if
what he is doing bothers some people, my next question would be why are
they there. Most places tell you what to expect and if you don’t like
it stay out. Why try to push your beliefs on other people. if you find
something you don’t like stay away from it (or simply log out). Oh no
but that would make to much sense.
Wake up America, and the rest of the world.
Comment by Donnie Mitchell — May 11, 2007 @ 5:36 am
Signed!
Comment by Klaartje Jewell — May 11, 2007 @ 5:50 am
Linden Labs this very well may be your down fall. I can understand wanting Age verification, BUT what you’re asking residents to provide is ridiculous. Hard Core pron sites don’t even ask for so much. As so many have stated, its not but a matter of a few minutes for a kid go dig up their parents drivers license and social security card, so where does this actually stop minors from accessing adult areas? Frigging use the brain god gave you for what it supposed to be used for instead of sitting on it. SIGNED!
Comment by Victoria Tripp — May 11, 2007 @ 6:22 am
/signed - Untameable Wildcat
Comment by Untameable Wildcat — May 11, 2007 @ 6:25 am
Do not require such information and payment. It is an intrusion that is unwarranted.
Comment by Varelli Daviau — May 11, 2007 @ 6:27 am
i might be wrong but why not JUST and i mean JUST ask for Driver’s ID and thats it, i mean if its for the fact that clubs all over the world and bars ask for ID unless some country dont ..hmm i dont know… have drivers but im pretty sure all countries all over the world have people who drive or least have over 18 valid ID, why not JUST have that as verify……and if thats not enough, piss it, be unverified in SL, not all in this world gon in SL just for sex and violence, its just fun…as SL was intended to be ….but then again ….i could be wrong >.>
Comment by Cathrine W. — May 11, 2007 @ 6:43 am
Giving my ID-info (passport) to a third party is illegal in my country, so SIGNED.
Comment by Marvel Kit — May 11, 2007 @ 6:47 am
I think, SL has done good so far, and seen “adult” areas like XXX movie theaters bane using the no payment info, which works for me , SL was ment for our world our dreams, not a bunch a red tape that will drive many paying players away.
Comment by starhunter Gall — May 11, 2007 @ 7:07 am
I agree!
Comment by EveofDarkness Cosmos — May 11, 2007 @ 7:07 am
It is right to protect children, however these measures offer no such protection.
So what are the Lindens true motives?
Protect minors by all means - support ID Miners by no means.
I am not impressed Lindens - my perception is that you are greedy and could not care less about you constituants - does anyone have a different view?
More likely than not I will be winding down the SL Services division of my company - the future of SL is looking far to shakey to go ahead with our intended level of investment.
Can anyone recomend a better virtual world?
VIRTUAL WORLDS ARE THE FUTURE OF THE NET
- Just maybe not SecondLife
Magi Merlin
Magi.
Comment by Magi Merlin — May 11, 2007 @ 7:10 am
I am all for age verification (which is -already- possible with the details I gave when registering my avatar), but not in the way LL wants to implement it: giving personal info about my identity on Internet is not the way to go.
LL already got account informations hacked and stolen, and third party companies will not be safer (they might even use or resell the information we will give to cover the cost of the verifications).
This is without mentioning that in many countries, such a third party private company will not be able to access the databases needed to verify the users’ age (for example France got the Law on “Informatique et Liberté”, which protects us from such privacy risks, and UK residents are not even required to possess an ID card !).
Please, LL, for once, make an exception to your usual methods: do listen to your users and back off from that dangerous idea.
Comment by Henri Beauchamp — May 11, 2007 @ 7:21 am
Say no to age verification.
Comment by Janey Isabella — May 11, 2007 @ 7:23 am
Say no to age verification.
Comment by Irate Bubbles — May 11, 2007 @ 7:26 am
I refuse to pay any more than I have for this game and I refuse to give out any more info about it.
They were given my credit card information, and I was even quite hesitant to give that out.
Peps.
Comment by Peps Everett — May 11, 2007 @ 7:58 am
I hereby vow to sell all my land and reduce my account to a basic free account only - or leave the game entirely if Linden Lab requires any player to provide any additional information beyond what they already require for a premium account in order to access any portion of the game.
In fact, I’m already in the process of doing so. Sorry to all the nice people I’ve spent thousands of dollars buying things from (including Linden Lab)- you won’t be getting any more money from me if this goes through.
Comment by Rusalka Renoir — May 11, 2007 @ 7:59 am
this is a completely unacceptable and aunwarranted invasion of our private lives please rethink this as it will not only make the sl markt cave in but it will destroy the continuity of the land in the main grid…..
Comment by Crimson Cataract — May 11, 2007 @ 8:07 am
I like how the last two threads on this subject the blog have had absolutely no clarification replies by Lindens. They clearly don’t have the slightest idea what they’re doing. And probably will introduce still more unfixed grid bugs by doing it. They don’t *think*, let alone listen.
Only a fool gives out “identity theft” information on the Internet. Credit cards are easily cancelled; not so much SSN.
Not to mention the whole idiotic scheme will not do one thing to keep minors off the main SL grid.
If your kids are lying about their age and stealing your credit card to access adult pornsites, the problem does not lie with the service provider, it lies with *you* as a parent.
Comment by Giuliani Rossini — May 11, 2007 @ 8:38 am
I agree totally!
Comment by Calixus Voom — May 11, 2007 @ 8:54 am
There is no way that any private company has a right to have my passport number. Paricularly one with its affliations.
Comment by Griffin McAlpine — May 11, 2007 @ 9:13 am
No: it’s an unrealistic solution plus it’s limiting gameplay. It undermines people their personal responsability.
A free world where you can do whatever you like -as an adult- does not exist anymore in sl after this goes trough.
Comment by Wouter Doesburg — May 11, 2007 @ 9:34 am
NO WAY, JOSE!!!
Comment by Jody DeCuir — May 11, 2007 @ 9:49 am
At least im number 666!!!
I agree fully, as i DONT have a Credit Card. Cuz its not usual over here. But I also agree in all the above statements, we all agreed to be 18+!!!!!
Comment by Karsten Mannonen — May 11, 2007 @ 9:52 am
As a sl resident, i deeply resent everything about this … I live in the UK - if i want to access hardcore internet porn all i have to do is turn down my content filters and i will be bombarded! There is no way i would give LL the info they want, let alone a third party company.
As a parent, i take full responsibility for what my kids access on-line, what info they give out etc etc. This is how it should be. My big concern is that this will make it MORE dangerous for kids who find their way onto the grid. In adult areas, it is ok to use the chat channels, and people tend to just get on with stuff in public. Take that away and everything goes underground, where it can’t be seen. There is nothing to stop people having sex via im in pg areas or from opposite ends of the grid. In im, nobody can see that some 14 yr old is giving out their real age and contact details.
LL are not protecting children, they are covering their backs. There is a simple solution if they would listen …
MOVE THE SERVERS!!!
come to europe - land of grownups!
Comment by spinster Voom — May 11, 2007 @ 10:12 am
bArt Flint
Comment by bart Flint — May 11, 2007 @ 10:14 am
The very idea that this is about “protecting our children” or protecting LL (LRI) from culpability in the production of kiddie porn is totally absurd.
From the viewpoint of a 54 year-old woman who’s exists in RL as media and political consultant I’m seeing the ugly hand of the USDOJ here. USAttyGen Gonzales inhereited the work of his predecessor, the Reverend John Ashcroft.Gonzales is much more savvy in the cyberworld - and, as such, sees it as a wealth of personal information and control. I can see the scenario:
3rd Party Guy (DOJ Operative): Hey, we’ve got a great idea that’ll keep your ass outta the courts AND it won’t cost you more than a few cents per transaction, PLUS we’ll maintain the data base so you won’t have to. Think of the benefits, guys! Limit your liability…and think of the labor savings - totally outsourced, bro! And we’ve done work for the US DOE and DOJ and the Republican Party…so you know were on the up-and-up.
LL: Hmmmmm…less overhead…less liability…more profit…please, tell me more and where might I sign up?
And folks, SL residents, interested persons and media types/bloggers/SL affectionados, etc.; I’d like you to do this: Check on the SL homepage for the Linden Labs management team - it’s linked at the bottom to a homepage that has a link called mamangement. Note two of the members of the board of directors,Jed Smith, Managing Partner of Catamount Ventures and Bill Gurley of Benchmark Capital.
These guys are the ones you need to e-mail. These guys are the venture capital funders - they sit on the board to protect the funds assets. If they get the idea that SL is going toes up, they will take steps to remove or control certain managers - this is the way business is done. E-mail these guys and voice your displeasure, voice your concerns and voice your willingness to leave the grid if measures to invade your privacy in the guise of age verification are implimented.
You can complain in SL and the LL blogs all you want…no one really hears it. So get off the grid for a few minutes - and back into RL and let the companies and shareholdes who own Linden Research Incorporated (and I mean the funders and banks that hold their notes, liens, bonds and guarantees) hear that this is unacceptable.
You might tell them (as I did) that this poor business decision by LL will result in such a loss of revenues for Linden Research (LL) that a default in the company’s ability to repay debt, compounded by a class action suit for monitary dammages is in their future.
So, Peasants, it’s time to light your torches…a cleaner Transyvania (SL) is up to us!
Comment by Sinda Petrov — May 11, 2007 @ 10:25 am
I do not tell people my RL information, because I consider it a personal risk. I do not want that information in the hands of anyone, and hold it as close as I can and still function on the Internet. There is no reason that I can see why this particular part of the Internet needs special enforcement.
Comment by Janet Rossini — May 11, 2007 @ 10:50 am
Georgette Whitfield
I shall add that, cynic as I am, I think this Identity Verification (let’s call it for what it is) has less to do with protecting minors and everything to do with protecting Linden Labs profits by getting rid of the ‘free alt’ phenomenon.
I object on principle as I hate the thought of some stranger having all my personal details and do not trust they will be safe. It is an infringement of my civil liberties!
Comment by Georgette Whitfield — May 11, 2007 @ 11:16 am
Yeah, they are god, at least as long as the customers will let them.
They don’t listen, total ignorance of customers.
Only way this compagny will listen is the money way.
So when there fantastic crashing game space is empty, yeah then it is to late.
You get access to the most violent porn on the net with a C.C.
This will kill business in Sl, already big plot of lands come for sale,
because of this, people will start selling there stuff before it is to late.
And yes the ball is on already. (Snowball Effect)
My 1000.000 l$ (soon a value of 1 us$)
Comment by Sahrp — May 11, 2007 @ 11:17 am
Signed. If LL wants to address the very real problem of child abuse in SL then let LL and the residents together devise a meaningful abuse reporting/handling strategy which residents have confidence in and can see the results of their complaints.
Comment by Bavid Dailey — May 11, 2007 @ 11:18 am
Alaia Anatine
Comment by Alaia Anatine — May 11, 2007 @ 11:23 am
I’m over 40 a UK resident.
I’m against age verification for several reasons.
1 the company that is going to be used is based in the U.S.A. if they foul up and my details are lost. it is next to impossible to sue an oversea’s company due to the high cost, and other legal problems.
2 There is one case of a virtual world being investigated for wire fraud, and it was desided that even though clearly guilty it wouldn’t be cost effective for the federal authority involved to pursue the company.
3 with I.D. fraud rampant in the world I am not handing over any more details to use your (Linden labs) grid to the fullest extent.
4 This has been caused to a greater extent due to your gread, you made free acounts available and it has been the introduction of these that has made the grid what it has become today, the simplist way to stop this is to stop free accounts, or limit them to 14 days, and also pay people to check what goes on in your grid, but no, you expect us to take all the risks while you rake in the cash.
Comment by Ceejay Harvey — May 11, 2007 @ 11:31 am
NO NO NO NO Not in any way will I give my passport details.
Comment by Alan Ransley — May 11, 2007 @ 11:34 am
no to intrusive age verification
Comment by Wolfen Zinnemann — May 11, 2007 @ 11:39 am
No i will not provide SL with more information than a major adult content provider requires.
The soul intent of this measure is about protecting children yet there is no mention of drugs, alcohol, violence or gambling when SL talks about protecting children. (All of which are adult activities and regulated by law in many countries to protect children) Significantly more children are harmed by these each year than by the suggested adult content SL has focused on. If this measure goes ahead then every slot machine, bar, club with bar, weapon and drug paraphenalia gift box + any activity relating to these must be on parcels flaged as adult otherwise the intention of protecting children will be seen as a megre token and shown up as the feeble attempt to respond to a media investigation that it clearly is.
When it comes to protecting children you can not just choose that which is easy to do, it has to be all or you may as well do nothing.
SL can not prevent anyone from falsely verifying their age, any child can get access to the information that may be required.
I paid for full access to this game, i pay a monthly tier for a piece of land which is on a mature sim and now SL say i may not have full access unless i provide more information than any major adult content provider wants ?????????????
Comment by Just Goodfellow — May 11, 2007 @ 11:50 am
I agree that SL has enough info already AND cannot be trusted with more details about a user’s Real Life.
Comment by Muluk Vale — May 11, 2007 @ 11:50 am
It is illegal.. hello? I L L E G A L .. should i repeat that again? ILLEGAL!!! to ask for/ request /demand a social security umber for identification or any other purpose. LOOK IT UP, Lindens!
You already have my name, address, credit card numberS, and i spend a lot of money buying Lindens and paying rent, not to mention the $72/yr as well. You are NOT getting another fee out of me NOR are you getting any more personal information. Oh, what’s that? YOU wont be getting the information. Oh no of course not. You hire a politically based data mining company?? FORGET IT!!!!
If you feel you are covering your asses, i have a feeling you are being incredibly short-sighted. Business owners in SL who lose money because of this will all surely contact their attorneys and you will likely have more lawsuits than you have Linden clones. For that matter, those of us who have paid the premium fee to have the full Second Life experience (though you have now taken away the First Land that used to be part of it), could conceivably start a class action suit in regards to this new Verification thing.
No one can say who is “behind the wheel” of the avatar that is online. No “identity verification” can prove that until you want us to sign on with a retinal scan or thumbprint each and every time. Nothing will stop kids from sneaking into mom or dads wallet and giving you or a third party company that information. Nothing. So how valid is this? Its simply your way of covering your asses.
Sorry but you can cover them without any more of my information whatsoever. If this measure goes through, i will be asking for a refund of not only my $72 yearly fee.. but for every linden i ever spent on Second Life.
Listen to your users for once. Not the few.. but the MAJORITY.. who are saying HELL NO!
You want kids off SL.. insist on a credit card on sign up. It isnt proof either but it will make it at least one more obstacle for the kids. Do not punish adults for the actions of some people’s kids, and for your idiocy in opening the grid up to any and everyone.
Comment by Mirah McGuire — May 11, 2007 @ 11:59 am
This age verification scheme is so poorly thought out that I question the management competence of Linden Labs as a company. To create Nopet accounts (no payment information on file) open to every underage punk and griefer who wants to come then turn around and ask those of us investing thousands of dollars in business to hand over our DL, SSN or Passport numbers is so stupid as to shock the mind. If LL can’t make the simple decisions, can’t figure out the no-brainers, then SL is no place to be investing money. I am seriously considering withdrawing funds, consolidating my investment and preparing to shut down. What’s the point of even playing?
Comment by Deltango Vale — May 11, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
116 has a brilliant idea.
A notarised letter stating verifying my age is a completely legal document; so is a fax enclosing this notarised letter. Imagine if Linden Labs suddenly received a flood of faxes all verifying age from residents. Even if HALF of the unique residents did this, we would be talking a good 2 million plus faxes arriving at Linden Labs. Sounds to me a perfectly plausible,workable and legal way of solving the problem. Anyone with a legal background who can vouch for this idea as a legal alternative and solution?
Comment by Mowgli Soy — May 11, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
Age checking yes but only for “no payment info” and not the way it’s planned !
and why to charge us again for that ? If 6 mio of people are going to be checked at minimum 10SL see how much it will in LL’s pocket ! So I sign the petition and would like to have some statistics about the SL population like how many are no paymment info and how many have payment info.
Comment by Shine Rolls — May 11, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
No intrusive verification.
Comment by Val Darracq — May 11, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
keep on privacy.
I dont want identify from a stupid US agency!
Comment by Koro — May 11, 2007 @ 12:28 pm
I agree - freedom of privacy
Comment by victor ventura — May 11, 2007 @ 12:32 pm
Verification does nothing but offer the chance for farming of user data. We’ve already asserted our age legally, which is all that age verfication (short of notarisation). I don’t want teenagers on the adult grid, but I also don’t want my information to be farmed.
Comment by Squee Janitor — May 11, 2007 @ 12:32 pm
It ia amn attemp to create another profit center and to sanitize Sezcond Life. Apearently Linden no longer wants my money, because Im leaving if this goings though
Comment by Joshua Colman — May 11, 2007 @ 12:39 pm
Linden Labs is about to destroy its own creation with that!
I am 27 and my CC verifies me already if i would do something illegal!
They proved it by identify the child porn ppl in these days!
This is for nothing else than to spy us for an unstated purpose!
Comment by Tango Dryke — May 11, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
I think we have enoughe veroficatoin with the payment, like paypal and so on
Comment by Seb — May 11, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
Grazel Cosmo. Age verification for those with no payement info on file yes, for others no. And it should be handled by LL not a 3rd company. Adult flag should not be needed (though perhaps as a seperate flag for parcels it might be nice so people can filter it for searches for places but not to restrict verification status).
Comment by Grazel Cosmo — May 11, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
Hear Hear!
Comment by DeclanFate Flanagan — May 11, 2007 @ 1:10 pm
Please LL, wake up and realize that you’re not making LL better, but making it worse. No one condones the exploitation of children, but what you’re proposing won’t solve that problem and will tear away the SL culture. You have shown with your past actions that you really don’t care what the residents think and that you will do what you want regardless of what the residents do or don’t want. It’s time for you to start listening…. please, don’t put in ID verification.
Comment by Natsumi Watanabe — May 11, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
As of now credit card verification is a legal form of age verification (in the US) and is being used by the adult industry. Why isn’t it acceptable for LL? Underage players on the main grid are in violation of the current TOS, in other word they are committing fraud by lying to get in.
My biggest concern.
How is this verification really being paid for?
Who is footing the bill as a few L$ will not cover the incurred cost of this type of system?
Comment by Mic Medby — May 11, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
I couldn’t agree more. Linden Labs is reaching way over their heads. They have my CC#, they are certainly NOT getting their hands on my passport.
Comment by Tameryn Banshee — May 11, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
I made a decision after an in-game relationship fiasco to put a hard separation between my two lives. Also, I run a business in SL selling clothes and animations that is still in the startup phase.
First, I had plans to do adult animations that such a system will force me to scuttle in order that I don’t shut out potential customers.
Second, having to give this information is now a violation of my intent to keep my First and Second lives separated. While I work in a creative field IRL, and am likely not going to suffer stigma with an employer for having an SL account, I can’t take the chance that the employer’s *customers* will take issue with me being ‘age verified’ on SL.
The users have spoken… find some other way to age verify that is not nearly so intrusive… maybe a phone call to the person’s listed phone number? Oh, that’s right, that would require you to hire people that you think you can’t afford to pay for! After all, it doesn’t look like you can afford to hire good programmers capable of stamping out the bugs that have plagued the SL experience for the past six months.
Comment by Lynn Silverstar — May 11, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
i agree completly
Comment by ed1Lusch — May 11, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
I agree
Comment by Kathleen — May 11, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
LLabs has no right to my social security or my drivers license number in whole or in part. This is datamining at it’s most slimey.
Comment by Pennie Strauss — May 11, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
I personally have provided my credit card information, as well as whatever else was needed for SL, but here is a very important thing to consider, and this from some of my friends.
What about those who play female avis, and are truly male? I’m female, but I know a few who are guys, and play girls. They told me that if this goes through, they won’t, because who’s to say LL won’t be hacked, and their true identities are revealed? They act completely feminine, and in fact I tease them about it RL, saying they should have been girls.
Age verification, as mentioned above, should be required for non-verified people. But the rest of it? No. To require my DL, Passport, or SSN? This was a comment from a friend of mine, who works in the computer and personal information security field:
“??????: What danger is giving them your SSN? With your social, and a good computer, I can, within 5 minutes of getting it, have several credit cards issued in your name, and begin doing all sorts of stuff. With access to governmental databases, I can change your info, make you a felon, make you in debt millions of dollars, there is a lot that can be done with it. If Linden Labs ever requires it, drop Second Life. It won’t be worth the trouble that can happen. I mean, hell, if TJ Maxx’s parent company couldn’t keep shit safe, and they’re a bigger company than Linden Labs, what makes you think that Linden Labs can keep your information safer?”
It’s not worth all of that. I wonder if any Lindens will read this petition, but worse case scenario, it’ll be a travesty for SL.
Consequently, I’m just signing this for appearances. In all actuality, most petitions on paper aren’t taken seriously, and e-petitions even less so. But if it makes LL change their stance, then I’ll be pleased with it.
Comment by Rebecca Congrejo — May 11, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
When you apply for a US Visa, there is a question on the application, which is something like… Are you now, or have you ever been involved with a terrorist group? A lot of people laugh at it - I mean what idiot is going to answer YES to that?
Its there for a reason. The same reason that the TOS which you agree to, to register with Second Life asks you to declare that you are over 18 years of age. Put simply, if it is proven otherwise, there is legal recourse because you made a false declaration.
For that reason ALONE, I say we have all provided sufficient age verification to Linden Lab to indemnify them from any legal action that may arise from an under-age person accessing mature content. The TOS was crafted by the Linden legal team, and they have ALREADY covered Linden’s back. Game over, Thanks for playing. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to add further age verification to Second Life. Period.
Disclaimer: I am not a laywer, Someone with qualifications may want to comment further.
Comment by Keiko Rau — May 11, 2007 @ 2:08 pm
I hereby sign and heartily endorse your petition. LL are asking for too much, without any kind of public consultation; they have acted hastily and without due consideration for many valid concerns; and it is clear that if this project goes ahead, it will be the first paving stone in the road towards a highly segregated grid with a lot of disgruntled residents and businesses losing money hand over fist. Not to mention the oft-voiced concern that it is *illegal* in many countries, even apparently the US itself, to request the kind of information they are doing for the purposes of age verification. This is an utter farce and I won’t sit still and take it like a victim; I will not be proffering anything which I deem to be unreasonable in terms of proof of age, and if this causes me to miss out on enjoying my LEGAL, CONSENSUAL, ADULT lifestyle within Second Life, then so be it. I may just be forced to move on. My premium account will be due for renewal this summer; I shall think long and hard about the in-world circumstances before paying.
Comment by Fledhyris Proudhon — May 11, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
We are being constantly warned not to give out our private information for fear of identity theft. We are enlightened many times by reports that those who have our private information and are supposed to protect it, in fact throw the details in the rubbish bin, or send something for you with your details on to a complete stranger instead, or they even lose their laptops containing private information of thousands of people. I haven’t been in SL that long, so did not know that everyone had to change their passwords because LL was hacked! Doesn’t that alone ring alarm bells?? I have paid several hundreds of pounds (UK) for land in SL and spent a great deal of money in SL too. I pay a regular monthly tier to SL. If I was under 18 and possibly “borrowed” my parents CC, wouldn’t they be querying by now all the money that is going to LL on a regular basis? That would alert them to the fact their underage child was up to something without their knowledge, and so they would act on it. I fully agree that underage children need to be protected within SL due to much of the content, but I am betting that the majority of the 6+million residents are over 18 and many of those have already provided information which LL have seemingly happily accepted for several years. This is just a game, I dont need to take the risk in this day and age to give my life details to a stranger (third party), just to allow me to play a computer game! Not a good idea at all LL!
Comment by Winchendon Dickins — May 11, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Good choice: guilty until proven innocent
- Any action restricting people to induce ’security and protection’ results in anything but. Voluntary registration of sensitive information to avoid being chastied and shut out of (parts of) SL, whilst innocent is as voluntary as opting to have yourself put in prison to avoid being robbed in the streets.
Comment by Tulincarchta Myhre — May 11, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
I am in SL to make money, as most of the quality content creators are. One of my businesses sells “adult” items, which is the most profitable and keeps me afloat on slow days. If this action prevents me from making a profit, as it apparently will, then I will close my stores and leave SL. I believe many others feel the same way, resulting in a mass exodus of SL’s best content creators.
Comment by Renouf Frobozz — May 11, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
I have spent a good deal of the morning reading up on the social security act and it’s ammendments and addendums… I am not an attorney.
If I read this correctly, and I have read it several times trying to put myself on the other side of this great gulph between we the residents and they the lindens, then the following is true. If I have misread it, then maybe some attorney might need to step in and correct my interpretation.
In 1976, it became a felony to compel a person to disclose their social security number.
———
Tax Reform Act of 1976 (P.L. 94-455) included the following amendments to the Social Security Act:
To make, under federal law, unlawful disclosure or compelling disclosure of the SSN of any person a felony, punishable by fine and/or imprisonment.
———–
the above is taken from the 94-455 reform act.
It is my understanding that when a court compels disclosure, they force a participant in a suit to disclose the information. So, to my non-lagal mind, this is saying that to compel disclosure of a social security number would be a felony.
Putting that aside for a moment…
there is not a way that age can be verified by use of the last four digits of a social. All nine digits are needed.
there is not a way to use drivers license numbers to verify age. 16 year old kids have drivers licenses (some younger in some states… i got mine at 13)
there is not a way to use a passport to verify age.
the agencies that hold the information that would verify using the methods mentioned are prohibited from releasing the information.
Linden Labs is trying to cover their collective fannies… and I completely understand their need to do that. Without some sort of verification, they are a party to all that goes on in the grid. At sign up though, they have the opportunity and the means right there to indemnify themselves. Non verified accounts aside, every single person on the grid has agreed to TOS to be there and that includes an agreement that you are over 18!! If more stingent methods are needed, then make the application for a new account include a check box saying that you are over 18 (maybe it does… been a long time since i made a new account).
Personally, I believe that this is just a big smoke and mirror show. Linden and Integrity (sp?) have a deal going and we are third party suppliers. Our information is the commodity here, not our nominal fee for the verification. Linden may have a contract with this company, but as users we wont have that contract and will be in no way protected.
I wont be giving anyone my SSN in whole or in part. Same goes for my driver’s license number.
Comment by mckenna mcgee — May 11, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
i think the reason why they are on this age verification bs is, because they got busted by the german TV channel “ARD”. many of us have been calling for verification as in payment/ cc info.i don’t see why a CC is not enough ” vaild info “! my name, my adress, everything is on there!
LL is trying to cover their asses with the idiotic verification. all i am gonna say is this - google soon will come out with something similiar like SL, and people will flock in hordes over there. i know i will.
because i do not like the idea of my SSN running around the net, so their asses can be saved from any further law trouble they are already in!
Comment by Amina Zadeh — May 11, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
Phooey on giving SSN or other means of personal identification, with the amount of identity thefts today… NO WAY! I do know that a person has the right to deny giving social, and the company must place a 999.99.9999 social in their records, or other identifying means in which to make an indiviual record.
Comment by Roomie Whitfield — May 11, 2007 @ 3:14 pm
Dont see any reason to change the current system. Besides that why would i want to pay for something LL wants to have?
Comment by timmy mcleod — May 11, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
only parent must control children….good parent know what childrens do!!! sl is only one way for freedom! bad…but freedom!
Comment by michele — May 11, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
This identification stunt is a load of bs. I’m sorry but I am not going to give out my personal info just so LL can do something ‘accidently’ with it. They have the credit card info, That’s all they should need.
Comment by Thyna Ree — May 11, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
gladly sign !
Comment by Trebel Tone — May 11, 2007 @ 3:31 pm
I fully agree with this petition, i was considering investing my money in this game but with repeated failures on LL’s end to supply a robust stable service this ontop of that is making it harder and harder to see a viable future in this metaverse.
Second Life is becoming more and more a waste of life.
With the increased risks of personal information being easily obtained over the internet and identity theft becoming a very large very realistic concern i wouldn’t trust anything on the internet with my own used toilet paper let alone my personal details.
Comment by Balthazar Almendros — May 11, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
This is not the appropriate correction for LLs mistakes. This is just a bigger mistake.
Comment by Banba Brewster — May 11, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Linden can piss off with this. Kids will work around this issue no problem. Just go into mom and dad’s room, grab they’re wallet and they’re good to go. Let’s face it, how realistic is it to be able to really keep teens out of the adult world and vice versa? Giving some 3rd party company my very personal information is ludicrous.
Comment by Crist1ano Sands — May 11, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
age verification thing sucks
Comment by Jay Biziou — May 11, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
If when I first joined SL I were solicited for the information SL is considering now to be “voluntary” I would have found it to be a bore to be restricted from certain parts of the grid and not have become a paid subscriber. As I would have done then as I will do now I will walk away and not look back. Already losing my friend base in world from the exodus of players intending to leave there will be little to keep my interest.
Comment by Christopher McConachie — May 11, 2007 @ 4:32 pm
Thank you for adding yourselves to the ban list your isp logs have been hacked and your rl names have been determined.
Honestly people this is an exercise in futulity. You will not win. Not this time. You dont want to fork over info? Kaneva and Home are waiting.
Comment by No one — May 11, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
I dropped back to basic,
Im selling my land, I have stopped building new objects to put in my store
This whole thing is stupid, its getting warm outside, there are more fun things to do
than ending up on a caging list. Take this game and shove it
Comment by Anonymous Brown — May 11, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
I’ve verified through cc # and by afirmation that I’m over 21. If this goes through the few who are causing the problem ( the illegal underage who lied to get on) should be held accountable! Where I live in the U.S if an underage person goes into a liquor store (must be 21 here) they are arrested. period. not the other patrons. Put responsiblity back where it belongs.
Comment by Steve Shields — May 11, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
for crying out loud, it’s good enough for websites and mushes and muds and games all over the world, it should be good enough here. I’m so sick of people who are unable to control their own lives trying to take control of mine!
Comment by Ceileidh Ohara — May 11, 2007 @ 5:39 pm
No.
If the U.S. military can lose personal information on hundreds of thousands of military veterans, you expect me to trust LL or any third party company with my personal iformation?
No.
So I am going out of business. The items I sell might be deemed “adult” by the mysterious Powers That Be. (I sell erotic art) I will close my cafe. I also wont spend another cent, dollar or linden in this game. Ever.
Word of mouth gets around faster than a wildfire. People came here in droves from There.com to get away from their Disney pg-13 world… well, maybe its time to seek out new life, new worlds, another place to hang. SL isn’t the only virtual world.
I won’t leave SL, but I will no longer promote it to my friends, or in any way financially support this venture.
Comment by Rhyn Vale — May 11, 2007 @ 5:43 pm
I think that verification is needed, for ALL accounts. However, this method will not work as many legally can not, or will not, provide the needed information. CC info with a $1 refunded charge and a “I certify I am over 18″ button is the strictest requirement the adult verification services use. I know because at one time I worked for a company that hosted 1000’s of them.
While you may have a CC or cellphone if under 18, it is always backed by an over 18 held account. You can not have a PayPal account in your name if under 18.
My vote is to require proper identification of ALL accounts using the industry accepted methods, and forget about this SSN, Passport, DL# etc mess LL is planning.
Comment by DR Dahlgren — May 11, 2007 @ 5:46 pm
It won’t be long after this that Linden Lab discovers underage people still using verified, ID provided accounts belonging to their parents or older siblings and simply logging in easily because those older folks have the “save password” ticked on the login screen. Or have just gotten hold of the password somehow. There will still be underagers in SL but along with them will be a mighty horde of pissed off people. I won’t be handing out my UK ID information to LL and if so doing impacts on my game enjoyment then this mermaid is swimming away and never coming back.
Comment by StrawberryLouise Ling — May 11, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
agreed : CrimsonWings Eun
Comment by CrimsonWings Eun — May 11, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
I doubt LL will listen to this. While the last big list of subscribers did get their attention, at the meeting they got, Cory did nothing but reguritate the same stuff already said.
That comment made, I agree Verification is needed for. CC# is enough for everyone else, it should be enough here.
NO NO NO NO on this proposed “solution” to a problem that really doesn’t warrant it.
Comment by Farrah Foss — May 11, 2007 @ 5:57 pm
Parents, not SecondLife, are responsible for the supervision of their children on the Net. This is precisely catering to those who break the Terms of Service. Above all of this, children and teens under the age of 18 will be encouraged to play the adult version of the game, which may well lead to more instances you say you are trying to avoid.
Comment by blackcrow6667 Garmes — May 11, 2007 @ 6:05 pm
if i have to give up whole or part of my SSN im going to quit being a paid member because this is just so very messed up on so many levels. i can understand Drivers license or state ID along with your name and birthday… but SSN is a violation of my privacy. Not only that but what if they get hacked in the time it takes them to verify me… Does anyone here think the same as me when i say “identity theft?” LL hasn’t been known for they’re hack proof security software and i am very concerned about this.
Comment by Renard Thatch — May 11, 2007 @ 6:09 pm
Not even to enter a real adult club in real life they ask me so many papers, so im quiting second life. Everyone who does NOT agree with their terms should quit, because they are changing the contract that we accepted, therefore doing ilegal changes to our rights. Im going back to World’s. At least there they accept my credit card as prof.
Comment by Nika Shilova — May 11, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
I have been in this game for so long i just a few weeks ago celebrated my second aniversry in sl. I ame in here cause of a friend and curiosty and sl has done. now this! Out of all the things wrong with sl they all of a sudden decided to do this. Yeah lets ignore al other problems like bleeding textures lag and mac and pc people crashing and lets find a way to make more money.
So were giving you our hard earned money for a broken game. You guys can’t fix cause you break something else with your supposed updates meant to help us. Now were giving you more money just so you guys can sit there look at the screen and ask is he really that old?
Every game does something to piss there customers off but at least slowly those people come back but this is the most ludacris money hungry assclown thing I have ever heard of. I have played many online games. I guess you will charge us money to start breathing the sl air oh wait this is a virtual world..
In my opp which i see I’m around 800 person to sign this is. Here’s a wild brain storming idea stop lining your pockets with our hard eraned money and Try to fix the problems that you have made for yourselves before opening your hands and asking for more money.
Comment by Terry Moseley — May 11, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
Codie disapproves this type of third party age verification system that is intrusive and violates every SL citizen right to privacy. CC is already much, the actual system works.
Comment by CodeBastard Redgrave — May 11, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
This way is not safe for anyone, it may happen that datas identification become something that can be sold to someone that wants to enter in a data identification site
Comment by Jessica Wrangler — May 11, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
In this day and age of identity theft one has to keep close guard on their drivers license, there SSN and passport. If you give your DL as identification and a hacker gets that number, he will get your SSN and therefore can cause all the damage in the world. Just look a cop can look up your DL and find your SSN any court papers, and land that you own, it is not that hard for a hacker to come by that information either. I believe that this is a scam to make money, and to begin tracking residence and what they do on secondlife. Linden Labs should do more investigating into the privacy laws and Identity theft. The company who told them that they could deliver is just trying to get people’s information to sell. If Linden Labs go through with this age verification procedure they will find themselves not only having the thought of peoples identity on their hands but a major lawsuit if any information is leaked. They are trying to hide their behinds by punishing the legit residence, well there is always a way for their behind to be burnt. I wish someone out there who has the money and the equipment could make a better virtual world than Linden Labs. Looking at all the failures and building on it. That would show Linden Labs that they are not the one and only. I for one I am leaving SL it is not worth my identity.
Comment by Queenbee Pintens — May 11, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
At no point you mentioned the name of the third party company. By plain reason, this imposes conspiratorial suspicions on people, don’t expect us to be sheep.
Comment by Sun Graves — May 11, 2007 @ 6:53 pm
I do not trust LL or their third party with my important info. They have all the info they need. SL has been fun, but time to move on. There will be others come along. LL just did what they wanted when they wanted but were happy to take your money. Goodbye LL!
Comment by davey luxor — May 11, 2007 @ 6:53 pm
This is ABSURD. MY PASSPORT NUMBER? Andyou just ask us to give it to you WITHOUT ANY INFORMATION on the third company?!
OUT OF YOUR MINDS. if you’re thinking that SL is such an addictive game in the extent that in the end we will give in and believe that it is more important than RL, you are out of your minds.
My integrity is my RL, and my passport number IS GIVEN TO PUBLIC AUTHORITIES, NOT INTERNET THIRD PARTY. do you even get how CRAZY THAT SOUNDS, INTERNET THIRD PARTY ?! not even J. Pollock was that VAGUE.
Comment by Ran Bright — May 11, 2007 @ 6:59 pm
I agreed to the TOS, I entered the contract (which is only valid if you are over 18).
Enough said.
You have my money, I have the responsibility for my actions.
Comment by Bill Hall — May 11, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
need more specifics from LL, until that happens cant fully support any such action.
Comment by nebadon izumi — May 11, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
I see why the Lindens are doing this… the math is simple, let’s assume that 50% of the community verifies their age for an arbritrary amount (x):
in this case (x) will be $2USD
6,240,591 * 0.5 = 3120295.5 age-verified users
3120295.5 * $2USD = OMG $6,240,591 USD
I know that LL is TRYING to convince us that the amount will be very small, but in the grand scheme of things this change MAKES LL EVEN RICHER.
I’ve already PAID PAYPAL FOR THEIR IDENTITY VERIFICATION SERVICE. I will not pay LL for something I already have.
I can’t even trust Linden Labs to process a PayPal Payout request in a reasonable amount of time… 5 fucking days? I’ve been selling on E-Bay for over a year now and IT DOES NOT TAKE THAT LONG TO PROCESS A PAYMENT. Where does this money go during this transitional period when it is not reflected on my LL balance, US balance or PayPal balance? There isn’t even a screen showing pending transactions.
Linden already skim’s the system for money in every way they can such as fee’s on Credit Transfers (at least $1USD per transfer), a noticeable difference in Lindex exchange values (buying Linden for 275L = $1USD then only being able to sell at 290L = $1USD, where is that extra money going?). This age verification scheme is a plan to make Linden more money, not to protect any of the users. I won’t fall for this scam, and I hope you don’t either.
Comment by Nulflux Negulesco — May 11, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
well we shall see if they hear us now
Comment by mercurion curtiss — May 11, 2007 @ 7:33 pm
i’m against it that linden my age verifaction makes >,
Comment by Kitsami — May 11, 2007 @ 7:35 pm
Dont want it .. im 40 stil dont want it
Comment by Yojne Spitteler — May 11, 2007 @ 7:38 pm
Agreed, When I signed up they were asking me for Credit card info to verify age. that has since been removed.
I will not give up any more data!
Comment by Mars Benelli — May 11, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
/signed
Comment by Aeneas Beaumont — May 11, 2007 @ 7:54 pm
signed.
Comment by Faith Matova — May 11, 2007 @ 8:22 pm
I am fully against age verification.
1)It does not ensure that people are who they say they are, which would be where the big business people would be concerned.
2) It does not protect anyone. Truly, a child is only protected by their parents control. It does not protect adult sl business from lawsuits. It does not protect anyone. It only puts millions of people at risk for identity theft. Not wanting to put myself at risk for identity theft is a very legit issue.
3) I also agree with a poster above: ‘who is the company we will be providing the info to, and why should we trust them? they are willing to do it for such a tiny fee, that I highly question their motives.
4) To my knowledge, an internet service cannot be successfully sued for a child lying to them. While I understand the need to take steps to shelter the company from liability, I do not think that Linden Labs is not protected by this system either. We need a lawyer to look into this.
5) We are already watched everyday by cameras when we walk into school, into work, almost everywhere we are recorded. That is wrong. To ask us to give up our home address is wrong. This is wrong, to the bone, it is wrong.
I know that it will happen anyway, because not enough people care to stand and be counted.
6) I really think the lindens are trying to get another in world revolt, to make headlines. that is the only logical conclusion.
Comment by Pepto Hoyer — May 11, 2007 @ 8:23 pm
I am fully against age verification.
Comment by Bill Rydell — May 11, 2007 @ 8:38 pm
Voluntary or otherwise, this is an unnecessary provision.
Comment by Shufei Zenith — May 11, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
I agree. I do not trust Integrity Services with ANY of my personal information. I don’t even test LL with ANY of my personal information, yet I had to register my credit card.
Comment by JoeTheCatboy Freelunch — May 11, 2007 @ 8:48 pm
This is wrong. Period. Deal with the problem in other ways.
Comment by Piers Philbin — May 11, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
this is bs ,im not giving my socal security number to them. invasion of private info!!!!!!
Comment by turborabbit congrejo — May 11, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
If they put that thing through then SL will most likely die from people quiting.
Comment by Wolf Pye — May 11, 2007 @ 9:22 pm
I will gladly verify, with my cc or paypal. Not more.
Comment by Diesel Tuck — May 11, 2007 @ 9:22 pm
I agree with what my brother (Wolf Pye) said…
Comment by Rena Biedermann — May 11, 2007 @ 9:26 pm
A.) It is completely unreasonable to expect us to *pay* for the opportunity to have our privacy invaded, and possibly expose ourselves to extreme harm through identity theft.
B.) I have been a victim of fraud in the past. I am wary.
C.) LL has been hacked in the past. I am very wary.
D.) It is completely illogical to suppose that age verification will stop yucky but legal ((http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dltr/articles/2002dltr0019.html)behavior by verified adults.
Should we boycott? Refuse to verify and hang with the PG crowd? SL is my jones, but I will go cold turkey if it will help to convince LL that this is flat-out the lamest example of butt-covering uselessness.
Comment by Alphabet Qi — May 11, 2007 @ 9:26 pm
There are several reasons why this is a bad idea:
1) Integrity guarantees our information with nothing but use of passwords and a firewall. Check their homepage. I.e. a normal windows computer straight out of the box will satisfy this. A useful guarantee of safe information would be that if someone has suffered because of a suspected leak from Integrity’s database, Integrity pays all costs to remedy that damage. How likely does that sound?
2) Even if their security was Perfect with a capital P, databases can still be subpoenaed according to american law.
3) If this data is spread, people will suffer for it.
4) The problem it was supposed to solve will not be solved by these actions. Two adults having consensual sex seems to be what brought this on, and neither would have been stopped by this. This method can’t stop kids using their parents’ data either, which would be the other point. So, draconian measures that will not solve the problem, since LL won’t guarantee we won’t meet teens on the adult grid. Read the TOS and the CS.
The other part of this is worse. LL reacted with a knee-jerk reaction to two adults playing a fantasy together, banning them. They had done nothing that breached any agreement with LL. Furthermore, this was a serious change from the previous stance of LL, namely that avatars were not real people. Now LL decided that they were, no matter american law’s clear position that virtual child porn, namely images that were produced without children involved, are not child porn.
Then they say that they want the definition of “adult” content to be decided on by the SL community.
Which would have been possible, until LL decided to draw that line themselves. Judging people when you have the power to do so, makes you responsible for making further judgements. People will ask why rape play is allowed. And then, LL can’t say that avatars aren’t real. They set a precedent, so out it goes. Next up is BDSM, and so on.
That will be the consequences of letting the community decide.
Comment by Aya Beaumont — May 11, 2007 @ 9:29 pm
Power to the people!
Comment by Uchi Desmoulins — May 11, 2007 @ 9:30 pm
Everybody else accepts Credit Cards as verification. Me too.
But not this!
Comment by Roland Haas — May 11, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
Sl must remain like this…
Comment by Gianluca Woodget — May 11, 2007 @ 9:44 pm
Goodbye Second Life
This is madness
Bring on Third Life
Comment by Anneliese Planer — May 11, 2007 @ 9:58 pm
We all need to stay logged off on a pre set date!!!!
Comment by Josh Noonan — May 11, 2007 @ 10:00 pm
it’s ok to check age.
The way LL goes is very dangerous. At first, in Europe is no social insurance number for everybody.
Second, there is no obligatory passport e.g. in Germany. You don’t need it for travelling in Europe
Third: Integrity, a Aristotle company is far, veryfar away from being trustworty. Aristotle is a data miner for political parties. Check very carefully to whom you may hand out your data!
Last but not least: Are you allowed, at all, to hand over your Passport number to a foreign party? Check carefully! Such things may be against law!
Linden does not want such questions open. In fact they have censored every posting with this questions i’ve written to the blog.
At the actual state there may be two possibilities left, if Linden goes on: breaking Laws and handing my data to Aristotle (which is a stupid thing to do), or leave. The “it is voluntary” is bullshit bingo. I would be locked out from my own parcel….
Raban Laborde
Comment by Raban Laborde — May 11, 2007 @ 10:06 pm
Dizzy Musashi
Don’t make me pay for places I’ve allready been. Minors are still going to get through this system like they always have ; )
Comment by Dizzy — May 11, 2007 @ 10:07 pm
You Already know my views. Go on and change the name of SL to 1984 and get it over with.
Comment by Mituyasi Tiger — May 11, 2007 @ 10:15 pm
You can’t ask us to give our information for a game! Kids shouldn’t be here but you ask far too much, this will KILL SL if it goes through
Comment by Salamol Paragon — May 11, 2007 @ 10:16 pm
I’ll be interested to see how this plays out but I’m thinking the deal has already been done and age verification as suggested by LL is on it’s way regardless of our opinions.
Being in the EU (UK) I’m concerned over the data protection aspect of this.
Time for the million avatar march methinks.
Comment by Scorpius Widdershins — May 11, 2007 @ 10:19 pm
This is outrageous…………if this is implemented expect to see the linden exchange collapse. I will seriously consider selling mine before the market falls
Comment by Aidan Young — May 11, 2007 @ 10:28 pm
I wonder, if this goes through, if this is the death knell for SL. Hmm.
I do agree though. No way in hell I’m giving any part of my social to a -game-.
Comment by Syless Pavlova — May 11, 2007 @ 10:30 pm
I have absolutely no support for this injustice the lindens are going to impose its pure crap sl will loose half or more of its residents because of the lindens inability to listen to the people that live in sl
Comment by EmperorD Cattaneo — May 11, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
A fairer and more just system would give us an option of the validation system we use to prove our identity. There are several around; even PayPal can do very strong validation (and they require much more documentation than “just the four last digits of the SSN”), as well as Verisign or Thawte.
A good implementation would separate the two systems completely: the “flagging” of an adult parcel/object, and the way the “validated account” is flagged on the user database. A well-planned and open model would allow us to chose the identity provider we prefer (paying them any required fees) and get us the “validated account” status.
The “one size fits all” solution of “imposing” a single identity provider on us is much more like a “one size fits none” solution.
Comment by Gwyneth Llewelyn — May 11, 2007 @ 10:46 pm
Against age verification. Putting people in a position where they have to give out their personal info is not right.
Comment by Korova — May 11, 2007 @ 10:49 pm
I will not be verifying my age. I certified that I was over 18 when I joined SL, and my CC has been billed $2,000+ USD over three years. That is proof enough. LL seems determined to “regulate” the fun out of SL.
Comment by Kevin McLean — May 11, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
This is ridiculous and outrageous.
Comment by Rayan Fredriksson — May 11, 2007 @ 11:02 pm
It would just take the fun out of it and would start to be more of a business. “All work and no play…”
Comment by Sarai — May 11, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
Its Ok to be thinking of ideas to keep minors out of special places.. but its not ok for me to give some foreign country my private data so their ass is covered.
And if you have to pay for it too… what i just read on their blog, its even more stupid!
Im against it!
Comment by Sharks Chevalier — May 11, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
I don’t login as much as I used to but this will pretty much stop me altogether as SL will be uninstalled.
Comment by Lora Kivioq — May 11, 2007 @ 11:33 pm
Indeed!
Comment by Orim Katsu — May 11, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
um….stupid SL….
Comment by Arwen Shimada — May 11, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
Some day..Linden Lab will kill what joy they brought to us all.
Comment by Seb Yakan — May 11, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
If SL wants my SSN. I will be done with it. My Credit card is on file to pay for my account and that’s all that ever will be. I think this just may be the death of SL
Comment by Darren Weary — May 12, 2007 @ 12:02 am
I am against it…They dont NEED our DL# or SSI# …just more ID out there of us floating around waiting for a hacker to get it and use it against us and clean out our bank accts and steal our ID”S …in others words…this IS a very bad idea!!! It is an ACCIDENT waiting to happen!!
Comment by Gracie Hyland — May 12, 2007 @ 12:24 am
I agree, I do not wish to give my SSN to LL or some 3rd party with the thought of the possibility of it being hacked…. They have had my paypal information (certified business account), as well as my credit card info (again certified i am of age and a business account)…this should be plenty. Their minimal “fee” disgusts me, yes its minimum but any idea how much linden they’ve stolen from me already due to time outs, crashes, etc… on their end… and all i get is “let us know if it keeps happening”… 3 week response from anything i report… what a crock!I pay 2 accounts on a monthly basis, as well as tier ranging from 195-292.50 a month for the past 2 years…. hello, a child would not be paying this kind of money … parents would notice! duh! Tell you what … I will give my social , when you give me every one of yours at linden labs…. so that I can verify if you’re of age. I’m for keeping out children, don’t get me wrong, but your ideas are so wrong on this one! Listen to the one’s that built this up…sheesh….stop ignoring the one’s that don’t own multiple islands and huge business titles, get the crap straight that’s been bugged for months now. (steps down off her soap box and goes back to her bunnee hole)
Comment by Bunnee Varmint — May 12, 2007 @ 12:32 am
I understand age verification being a good idea on the adult grid. But identity verification is going too far for a game. I suggest everyone boycott identity verificaton.
Comment by Claudia Seurat — May 12, 2007 @ 12:35 am
will be a cold day in hell when i give LL more info to lose.
Comment by Fred Extraordinaire — May 12, 2007 @ 1:12 am
I, Echelon Strauss, am wholly opposed to this method of age verification.
For a company that compares itself to the next incarnation of the Internet, your behavior thus far has been disheartening, nay, embarrassing. As the final arbiters of policy in Second Life it is YOUR responsibility to weigh the full consequences of your actions. Calling the nascent policy ‘voluntary’ only obfuscates the truth, and utilizing a company with a less than sterling record for privacy is simply inexcusable. If you truly wish to be remembered as the benevolent originators of the Metaverse, begin acting like them.
-Echelon Strauss
Avatar of Alan C. Tupper, Atlanta, GA
Comment by Echelon Strauss — May 12, 2007 @ 1:13 am
not for me
Comment by rock lawl — May 12, 2007 @ 1:15 am
pathetic …
typical americans… they are the worst on the internet but are afraid to admit it
the internet is FREE
SL is open community .. if one does not want to do something you can TP out or quit or mute ….
parents should check children - not SL !
Comment by SLlover Vella — May 12, 2007 @ 1:29 am
ps.. this is against all european laws concerning privacy of data !!!!!!!
Comment by SLlover Vella — May 12, 2007 @ 1:36 am
This is bull, i give LL enough of my money and they have all my info already, now i need to give it to a middleman who hasn’t said jack about if their storing my info or not?
Comment by Starfleets — May 12, 2007 @ 2:05 am
Thats some BULLSHIT!!!
Comment by Story Takakura — May 12, 2007 @ 2:22 am
Signed.
I will leave if I need more than a credit card.
Comment by L. Palmer — May 12, 2007 @ 2:52 am
I am against that too.
Comment by BlueMoon Tenk — May 12, 2007 @ 3:03 am
Signed
Comment by Kit Massiel — May 12, 2007 @ 3:12 am
CC verification is MORE than enough, cut the bull shit….remember the Prohibition?
Comment by Danka — May 12, 2007 @ 3:46 am
Signed, Sullivan Yiffu (1 annoyed coon’)
As stated above we waved your legal responsibility to anything that happens to us if we clicked “agree” on the TOS when we signed up, so why add another restriction when it realy isnt even to cover your own behinds, since their already covered?
Also if age verification is optional and the land owner has to willingly check a flag on the parcel then you are still going to have unverified users traveling into land with explicit material whos landowners chose not to comply with verification.
As many have said this will divide people without even realy fixing a problem, or nonproblem as the case may be.
Comment by Sullivan Yifu — May 12, 2007 @ 3:48 am
As well protected like that. Leave us alone
Comment by Maxter Ambrose — May 12, 2007 @ 4:18 am
Creating a safe system for business will just destroy the original community of Second life. Linden Lab has there eye on the prize of attempting to own a 3D technology of the future. This will just cause backlease that they cant afford since SL is open source. It doesnt seem like they are headed in the right direction.
Comment by Syd Loon — May 12, 2007 @ 4:32 am
i don’t think that we should have to prove our age if they cannot keep our information safe.
Comment by Dakota mills — May 12, 2007 @ 4:38 am
too many hackers which was proven by the password resetting. too many bugs and holes within sl
Comment by Rachel28 Allen — May 12, 2007 @ 4:41 am
SSN, DOB, Addy, DL#, etc?
SL must have lost their ever-loving minds if they actually think I’m giving up that much information simply to play a RPG.
Comment by Audiomind Zhoa — May 12, 2007 @ 5:03 am
This is not fair to us. LL the Evil Monarchy…
Comment by Avey March! — May 12, 2007 @ 5:07 am
Linden Labs, I’ve seen some real brain farts from you in the past year but this latest debacle is a fucking masterpiece. You seriously need to stop smoking so much weed. The mercury in it is obviously starting to make you lose your grip on things.
1) Integrity is a questionable operation. For some reason you chose to use these people instead of a more respected age verification service.
2) You’ve been hacked before. Since this data transfer is going to be paid for in L$, I can only assume that my SSN will be going through your servers.
3) You never listen to your Residents. Many of us told you to stop open registration a long time ago. But no, ain’t gonna happen because you guys want to be bigger than Google or something like that. Many of us told you to bring the hammer down on the ageplayers more than a year ago. Until the recent media exposure of ageplayers and the awful shit they do on SL, you said you were going to turn a blind eye to it.
Trust you with the last four digits of my SSN? Fuck you. I wouldn’t trust you with my shoe size.
I’m not quite ready to ditch SL…yet. But you guys can kiss my Premium membership goodbye! >:D
Comment by Chris Senior — May 12, 2007 @ 5:10 am
When I came to SL and the population was just over 200K I thought this place had the greatest potential, it could be the gateway to everything online in a 3D metaverse. Wow what a concept, and then I see how things have progressed in this world, it will be a shame to see such a great creation go by the wayside because they didn’t listen to the residents that helped bring them to where they are. I really hope LL will see the error of this and decide against implementation of this horrid idea. I may not quit SL yet but if this goes through my premium account will be downgraded. I will NOT pay for someone to “accidentally” lose or let fall into the wrong hands anymore of my personal data, bad enough the password fiasco, now you want me to trust you with more????? If you can’t verify the way you have through the credit card and TOS agreement, then you can’t do what any other mature site can do. Don’t fold your vision of this creation into an open house for people unwilling to see ALL aspects of Life in their splendor and glory, which is part of what made SL such a great place.
Comment by Alexander Matthews — May 12, 2007 @ 5:42 am
This harebrained scheme is illegal in Australia, where the Privacy Act specifically controls the collection and use of personal data. Many other countries have similar legislation. It is unnecessary, divisive and a huge mistake.
Comment by Fulvio Gerard — May 12, 2007 @ 5:56 am
If such a thing goes through it should be for the new people coming in at least, don’t harass your decent long-time customers, they’re the ones who’ve really made SL such a great place in the first place.Linden Labs simply manages finances, in-world security and overall system accountability. I am in no way comfortable giving such information to Linden Labs because i have doubts that they could safeguard such information based on past events that i have witnessed. Trust would need to be established before i’d even consider doing that for anyone period!
Comment by Steven Hawkeye — May 12, 2007 @ 6:12 am
I don’t feel comfortable with this solution, plus, I cannot give out the passport number or the personal identification number without breaking the law here.
Comment by Vivien Cummings — May 12, 2007 @ 7:15 am
I pay a lot of money to LL for my land (in a “mature” sim) and my yearly subscription .. and dont wanna lose it .. but this gets a resounding NO .. I wont be doing it!
Comment by Betsie Barmy — May 12, 2007 @ 7:44 am
EU laws prohibit transfer of personal data to non-authorised holders.
Comment by Zara Planer — May 12, 2007 @ 7:50 am
Signed.
Comment by Kate Sakai — May 12, 2007 @ 8:33 am
Identity theft… that is what’s waiting to happen. Somewhere someplace this information will be stored. LL is only saying it will not be sold or given away. The latest postings by LL do not say anything about it not being stored, though i could have sworn the first one or two did. Somewhere along the line they changed their minds on it being stored by this Integrity…? And sorry that’s a name just screaming “HACK ME!”
I agree with everything said here. I even stated something to this effect in the blog post page 11 under the identity verification. I work at Club Lust which means when this goes into effect I’ll no longer have a job. Which also means i will no longer put any RL money into SL to suppliment what i earned. Eventually I’ll sell off my inventory and turn the lindens to cash and leave. My shops will close. Shops I frequented will lose my business. I won’t be able to update my Xcite bits
SL is getting very much a dictatorship.
Comment by Amber Ur — May 12, 2007 @ 8:48 am
I wouldn’t trust the life of a virtual pet to Linden Labs nor their third party age verification company, much less my own personal information.
Comment by Chaud Metty — May 12, 2007 @ 9:52 am
Furthermore, I prefer to keep my First Life and my Second Life completely seperate, as we are not the same people (so to say). I do not want the two to be connected.
Comment by Chaud Metty — May 12, 2007 @ 9:56 am
I’ll keep an eye on SL when this disgusting system is installed, which might be with the next downtime (You remember, they want to install it in may…)
Some - not very much) peope will leave. This are the people who gather some information of their laws, and about tish “company” with the nice name Integrity. The utmost will stay and give their data, most people today don’t keep in mind that data are precious. The first will drain SL from very good people because keeping informed and seeing consequences needs brain. The second group will get the real life experience of identity theft. With this disgusting scheme it will happen.. no, it must happen sooner or later.
Be warned!
Integrity is just a brand name of Aristotle.
Aristotle is acompany gathering data and process this data for political parties to make election propaganda more effective. Other organisations use their data, even ridiculous people like the creationists (Those idiots saying the world is created by god 5000 years ago including dinosaur skeletons etc.).
Get informed.
www.aristotle.com
Would you trustfully give your very personal data to a company offering “Power Tools for Politics”?
********************************************************
* Keep in mind: This is a database with people who *
* explicitly want to see adult content! It’s a gift *
* for some republican politics, religious extremists *
* or fanatics….. *
* - in other words, the customers of Aristotle. *
********************************************************
Integrity gives you exactly no insurance of security. The words on their homepage are simply nothing. If anything happens with the data, you will get nothing - Linden has an agreement with Integrity - you have not. In case of identity theft you may experience that Linden will charge Integrity for money. IF anyone else will see anything besides a “sorry” - mail (if at all) is not assured.
Linden has moved from a user driven 3D world to a dictatorship of some people who have lost any contact to the user. I’ve talked about this all to anshe chung studios. She’s the biggest landlord in SL - and they assured me, that the Lindens give a shit on ACS’ opinions.
The Open Letter Project turned out to a lot of hot vapour. Linden took it, said some sweet words - that’s it.
Seems to be the time to check alternatives.. see www.activeworld.com. They are far away from the technical state of SL today… but developing. You may afaik even download the serversoftware to drive your own AW-Server. Looking at the declining quality of service in both technics and support at SL it may be a choice soon.
Yis
Comment by yistin Usher — May 12, 2007 @ 10:03 am
LOL, Just another way to fix whats not broken. You say you must be 18, people see the TOS, if they do not obide by them then it is their defult not LL’s Stop trying to FIX WHAT IS NOT BROKEN. Once the “I agree” button has been fixed, you are no longer at risk LL’s. Stop trying to bring those of us who pay hundreds or thousands US down. If we make no business, You make no business. Fact.
Comment by Racer Lane — May 12, 2007 @ 10:15 am
****************************************************************************************
Join a burgeoning new online society, ***shaped entirely by its residents. Here you can be or do anything***. Explore an ever-changing 3D landscape. Meet new and exciting people. Create a masterpiece - or an empire. ****Second Life is yours - to imagine, invent, and inhabit****.
Explore a boundless world of surprise and adventure.
Create anything you can imagine.
Connect with new and exciting people.
Compete for fame, fortune, or victory.
Whatever your goals, whatever you choose to do, your Second Life starts now.
****************************************************************************************
This was the secondlife i joined, brought friends to, enjoyed…invested in
I don’t know when you lost sight of your vision if you ever really had one
But those are your words above, not mine, and funnily enough can still be found on the website.
I’m heartsick about this, it goes much deeper than what 3rd party you want to use to limit my faith in your integrity, perhaps it is best you contract with some.
Comment by Michelle Knotts — May 12, 2007 @ 11:28 am
You can verify my age with the info you have,Why put us through another big deal thingy when its of no use?
Comment by Victoria Berger — May 12, 2007 @ 11:43 am
Signed!.. Thanks for this petition, fingers crossed it works or at the very least gets through to other people for their OWN sake!!
I live in the UK.. I do not own a passport or a drivers license and a National ID number is NOT proof of age so I couldn’t possibly qualify for this age verification thing. Even if I did own these things I still wouldn’t hand over this kind of information.
I guess I’ll meet all you clever “none verifides” in a (PG) rated park for a cup of tea ;) since we probably aren’t allowed virtual alcohol either?? lol
Comment by Harmony Krupinski — May 12, 2007 @ 11:45 am
Why not a retinal scan and full body cavity search to go along with? It’s about as intrusive.
Comment by Saint Delbonnel — May 12, 2007 @ 12:01 pm
Say no to identification the whole idea is to have a Second life i verified my age at the beginning and that is all i want to do now.
Comment by Drifter DeCuir — May 12, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
Signed!!!
Comment by Sandi Omlet — May 12, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
What’s next? Parents birth certificate, blood sample, drug test, dna? This is not going to keep minors from getting into the adult grid, this is not going to keep them from taking mommy’s or daddy’s identification and using it to verify. Internet security starts at home, it’s the parents responsibility to make sure that their kids are not on the main grid.
Comment by Azizah Davids — May 12, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
I am against SL sharing or stealing any information that I provided to them. There is nothing worse than people that sell personal information!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Luvit Moore — May 12, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
Anonymity is sacro saint, i have the right to preserve it and will not disclose private information to a US company (Linden Lab) wich can monitor all chats and IM i do in SL. And that is the only reason for wich i gave no payement info (and will not gave any other asswell). The fact that the web is full of pornography accessible witouth any control (and i speak about effective pornography no toon sex) and that no internet provider was ever attacked about it demonstrate that their is something else in this.
Comment by Gilles Kuhn — May 12, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
It’s possible to open and verify a PayPal BUSINESS account with less trouble/information - why can’t LL use a similar system?
Comment by Inigo Chamerberlin — May 12, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
I will *not* give Linden Lab or their associates any identifiable information. Apart from abuse risks itself, imagine something does happen with the registration. In that case:
1. You cannot reach Linden Lab by phone; they don’t pick up and don’t call back like they promise.
2. You only get standard, generic answers to email that totally not answer your question(s).
3. Linden Lab only allows 100 responses to a blog post, used up within a few minutes after posting.
4. Forum postings seem to ‘disappear’
There’s absolutely no way of contacting Linden Lab in case you suspect the information you gave them is being abused. In addition, their currently suggested verification does not keep minors out of SL, and it does not prevent them from experiencing adult content. Linden Lab has made no effort to show how they prevent a minor from taking his camera into a parcel from which he is blocked. A minor can still participate in sexual activities, gambling, activities that similate the use of alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, weapons, etc. etc.
Comment by Harald Nomad — May 12, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
Me too @ #32!
Comment by Preute Forcella — May 12, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
We have enough id in SL.
Comment by Sei Goodnight — May 12, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
e-mail, a credit card# and your name are enough for hardcore porn sites. there is NO reason LS needs more than that.
Comment by Ada Svendsen — May 12, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
e-mail, a credit card# and your name are enough for hardcore porn sites. there is NO reason SL needs more than that.
Comment by Ada Svendsen — May 12, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
Nothing will prevent an underage person from accessing mature content. So this is a waste of time. LL will probably lose a lot of money over this if they follow through with this process. Since the Identity theft problem is always ongoing, SSN and any personal info can be used from that stolen identity, they will still be in the same position they are now. I am fully against pornography, child or other, but as you would surely know, you can’t stay away from it, it’s all over the net. Parents need to be more responsible about watching what their children are doing on the internet, and…since role play is so huge in SL… the people involved were of age, I suppose if anything, just change into an adult avie when deciding to engage in sexual acts. LL just needs to police better and remove everday the non acceptable content. Which means they need to hire people willing to work a period of time to do just that. I would be one willing to do that myself. Either offer free account for those willing or pay them. At the time of application for the position all info needed to verify age,etc as in real job interview can be retrieved. :)
Comment by Ahleah Darling — May 12, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
Don’t penalize everyone else for the parents’ mistakes. They need to pay more attention to what they’re children are doing. Yes, there’s ways businesses such as Linden Labs can protect them on such games as Second Life, but this is going too far. Really. You’re not their legal guardian, nor parent, nor babysitter. Pretty much, with personal information, you’re only helping those who hack to steal such information. Leave us alone about it already.
Comment by Zhefyr Sismondi — May 12, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
What THEIR children are doing. Grammatical error, sorry about that.
Comment by Zhefyr Sismondi — May 12, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
LL is trying. Just way too many unanswered questions right now.
Comment by Ronald Krugman — May 12, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
Perhaps some trust-worthy company should develop a system of age verification, where one can give their personal information, feel safe about doing so, and the age verification (18+) can then be public record to any web entity that requires it. Sort of like a PayPal for age verification. I’d even PAY a reasonable fee for such a service for the convenience of not being hassled about my age ever again!
Comment by Machine Envy — May 12, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
I sign. There’s only two options here for me. Either they do not do this, or I leave SL and never look back. It is as simple. Boycott works wonders.
Comment by Hanumi Takakura — May 12, 2007 @ 5:49 pm
I posted before at #819 but felt I had to come back and get one thing straight!
This comment was made by a few people here —> “Age verification for those with no payement info on file yes” C’mon guys please THINK.. So YOU actually want the “no paymement info on file” people to have to provide such sensitive information?? Yet YOU feel you shouldn’t have to?? Nevermind all that crap about who SHOULD and who SHOULDN’T have to give out such personal details.. NOBODY should be required to hand out THIS kind of information AT ALL!!! Get it??
Like many stated WE all electronically signed LL’s TOS, everyone has!! And by the looks of it most here have used CC# fair enough.. but don’t go on to say that FREE accounts should HAVE to hand over such RISKY information please!!.
And also like someone said in one of their comment’s above “If LL doesn’t trust us then why should we trust them with such personal information??”
Comment by Harmony Krupinski — May 12, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
If our credit cards are not proof we are adults why is the grid not shut down. We currently have over 6 million people with access to an adult only world who can’t prove they are adults.
And the Lindens will allow us to continue to enter this adult only world without any proof we are adults if credit cards are not acceptable. I guess the Lindens feel with a credit card we are adult enough to enter the world but not adult enough for adult content. We must be semi-adults then once we are in here???
Or maybe there is another reason for this whole mess. They might want the people to leave and let the SL world collapse. They would then have full ownership of all the resourses left and can sell it all for millions.???
Comment by Phil Hasp — May 12, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
If we let banning virtual gambling and now having to ‘voluntarily’ give out personal info because two people who in RL (hello…you DO remember this -is- a rping environment)are consenting adults who just happened to be playing younger AVs (And it IS illegal in the US by the way for anyone to demand SSN# as verification) pass without a whimper, whats going to be next….. Gor? because having or even rping a virtual slave is offensive to someone? Unmarried sex? You know there are still some places that have old laws on the books that make it illegal, right? Gays? Having the SL Nazi’s come invade my virtual church services because some AV that wanders by my place of ‘worship’ overhears and is mentally damaged by being forced to endure obvious indoctrination techniques? I love SL, and I’ll hate to see it go but at the rate things are sliding there won’t BE a SL a year from now. Not one I care to visit anyway.
Comment by hope Antonelli — May 12, 2007 @ 6:52 pm
I agree….Internet is a powerful source. Lets deal responsible with that fact!
Comment by Babis Cazalet — May 12, 2007 @ 7:11 pm
this rubbish to deminor the rights of every citizen because a minority has to be punished. will make our democracy unstable and will lead to something that we even not yet fear: the destabilization of democratic right and freedom. I will never ever give away my personal rights in favour of administration, bureaucracy and at the end the loss of freedom. Never. No price will be worth it. So let the web stay a free room, based on common sense - we can stand it!
Comment by Itzcoatl Aabye — May 12, 2007 @ 8:15 pm
this wil be the end of SL. Im sure that 90% of the people who are currently paying real money from real credit cards will not put up wit this shit and leave.
The only ones who will remain are the non-paying ones, the economy will collapse, fun people will disappear and only boring ones will stay. Most of them will be under age anyway. I say no to this prepotence. Why don’t we all agree on a general strike, lets say for three days nobody logs in? Fucking fascists…
Comment by Merlino Dagostino — May 12, 2007 @ 8:19 pm
The system is fine as-is.
Comment by Ashe W. — May 12, 2007 @ 8:34 pm
Can’t we sue them for breach of contract or intention of invasion of privacy or something?
Comment by Little Red Riding Hood — May 12, 2007 @ 8:40 pm
no way will i give out any more personal info……period
Comment by jeannie — May 12, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
I’ll give such info to open a bank account or get a credit card (which SL already has on file, btw), but not to a 3rd party just so i can walk into restricted areas in SL. ‘Voluntary’ is a load of bull too. It can also be said that going to work is voluntary.
Comment by Jeb — May 12, 2007 @ 9:40 pm
This identification system will do nothing in regards of keeping minors out. As far as i can see it’s only use could be to cover LL’s behind, in case something goes wrong.
Would i hand out sensitive and very personal data for that? No.
Giving up more and more freedom for protection that isnt even there? No.
As soon as you give away information like your SSN, you lost control over it. Nothing bad might happen with it, but theres the possibilty there will. And youre responsible for that then, cause you gave the info away. So i wont.
Protecting the underaged? I’m all for that. But that only possible if their parents keep an eye on what theyre doing and how to react in case they get sexually assaulted.And we all shouldnt hesitate to report such abuse if we spot it. Freedom comes with responsibility.
We dont need strong laws, but strong children.
-Asriazh Frye
Comment by Asriazh Frye — May 12, 2007 @ 9:43 pm
I don´t like it - I have proven my identity to get a credit card that is good enough to by everything on the net. But - and now it get´s funny - it is not good enough for Linden Labs. Either they think we Europeans are stupid, which we aren´t, or there is something driving LL to collect data about the cash flow in their system.
The whole “child pornography debate” is nothing that will be prevented by this system. Sorry folks, if you think this you are pretty naive and still believe in weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when the only weapon found there where the allied weapons of mass distraction.
In the end - it will only drive me away, and since it is illegal to give the data in some European countries I sincerely hope that Linden Labs will have to deal with claims against them because of an incitement of a criminal act.
Comment by chix0r szydlowska — May 12, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
I agree with the petition. We already signed a contract, so sue us if we are not 18 or older!!
Comment by Izaak Klees — May 12, 2007 @ 10:39 pm
I certainly don’t want anyone under 18 on this site. But, I think the measures that are in place are fine and any change seems to just be a way to for more financial gain that doesn’t see the forest for the trees. Kinda pennywise, dollar foolish.
I agree with the statement above regarding NANNY measures. Free expression leads to innovation. The majority of people are able to be accountable for themselves and their children, why change things for the worse based on a few that would always find a way around any thing any way.
Comment by Lillianne Anatine — May 12, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
I dont wanna give my CC for age verification. I leave SL instead.
Comment by Jako Pinion — May 12, 2007 @ 10:53 pm
Just thought I’d drop into this again to summarize things for those just joining in.
First, their alleged goal is to protect minors from adults sexually preying upon them. A noble goal to be certain, however… a large part of their case centers around a highly publicized ageplay incident in which an underage avatar was involved but a few lines down it specifically stated the players were “a 54 year old male and a 27 year old female”. As they are alledgedly trying to shut out underaged players and NOT underaged characters, this is called a strawman argument, a diversionary and in this case hot button topic.
Secondly, the identity collection is being down by Intergity Services, an Ariostotle (sp?) company who as multiple people have stated, was busted and earned an article in Wired magazine for being a data miner to sell information to political parties. Now, companies exist to make money. Nothing inherently wrong with this, however something is very wrong with basically saying if you don’t help them make money you cannot access all of SL.
Thirdly, because they are specially singling out the adult areas many areas will die as a result, and such content will be pushed to the fringes of “society” just as it is in first life. Except… it’s supposed to be different, a “life simulator”, designed so that you can make alternate choices in a safe and relatively similar environment, but different in certain key ways and this is one of them. Clearly if this is removed this will no longer be the case. Note, not only is this an obvious moneymaking move but it is clearly part of their intended plan to make it more commercialized and mainstream so that they can better market to business where the real money is. After all, it simply wouldn’t do to go making some online ad, only to accidently catch some kinky sex in the background and deal with the media backlash that stems from feeding on negativity in much the same manner leeches feed on blood. Ok, I feel better now. Back on track. Ahem.
Note also, sweeping the sex under the rug doesn’t make it go away, nothing stopping someone from standing in a PG sim and playing in IMs, although at this point they’d be better served by a less memory intensive client such as AIM/Yahoo/MSN. In essence it stops the erotic poses, and that’s about it. What it also does is put a lot of people out of work as the cybersex industry is quite large, and quite frankly I find it dubious they aren’t instead trying to jump into this, although it’s probably because if LL started making scripted penises or whatever it would be regarded as an official endorsement, and they’d again have to deal with the media backlash. I suppose it could be taken as a “We can’t make any money on this so let’s stop anyone else from doing the same.” type thing but that crosses the line into mostly ungrounded speculation, and I’m trying to keep this to things that have basis in fact or are at least, highly probable.
Also, SL was and as far as I know still is being marketed as an MMORPG. That’s Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. And unlike most with this label, roleplaying is actually involved, with a very large percentage of the population in character and living out their alternate lives as ______. Well any roleplayer can tell you one of the most basic tenets of the hobby is keep your in character info and out of character info seperated. I don’t think any further elaboration is required.
What’s more, it fails to even serve its original purpose (appearent or actual) as it is far more likely a teenager can persuade his or her parents that they need the ID for an MMO (which isn’t even a lie!) and have their access anyways, whereas the adults like I assume everyone here posting is unwilling to compromise their security in this matter as we know better. Which narrows things down to 1: Users with low disposable income. 2: Those who got in just to prey on the aforementioned group. and 3: Those that don’t know better. None of the above make for good consumers.
One final note. I dunno about the rest of the people here, but if I wanted something tied to my first life I’d just go do it in my first life, not break a number of personal, professional, and common sense rules to do it on SL. Simple as that.
I think that covers everything major but with near 1k posts it’s possible I missed something.
Comment by Roy Kleiber — May 12, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
I fully agree. If it’s perfectly legal for Pron sites and phone sex to accept CC#’s, name and date of birth for age verification, LL should be happy with the same. If anyone is underage, it’s likely those with no pay info on file and the ones doing the griefing!
Comment by Rhin Forti — May 13, 2007 @ 1:01 am
This is madness
Comment by Orona Steed — May 13, 2007 @ 1:17 am
I’m looking for another game like sl. I will not provide my passport details. My credit card should be enough. After all the money I spent in SL on clothes etc, they lost a customer.
Comment by Mariam Maitland — May 13, 2007 @ 1:47 am
That will be the end of me in SL…. what a pity
Comment by Philip Pilipenko — May 13, 2007 @ 2:46 am
My credit card should be enough age verification.
Comment by Parker Pinion — May 13, 2007 @ 3:43 am
Still considering to join or not.. but if this goes through I will certainly NOT join. I am also certain that many will quit if this verification is required.
Comment by Mary Matheison — May 13, 2007 @ 3:56 am
If they go on with this age verification fiasco, I’m taking my business outta SL.
Comment by Lucilla Beaumont — May 13, 2007 @ 4:18 am
goinna miss my escape that that frightning real life
Comment by Streaking Comet — May 13, 2007 @ 4:50 am
I will most definitely not be continuing to play second life if this restriction goes into effect. What Linden doesn’t understand is that anonymity is what keeps them in business. You think I am going to submit my personal info to some 3rd party so that the next thing I know I am on some FBI watchlist as a potential perverted sicko? I got news for you, there is now other unrestricted virtual environments that I can access that will allow me to maintain my anonymity. The contract is stated when we start and if you are going to change it now you can kiss the majority of your userbase goodbye.
Comment by Orinoko Aridian — May 13, 2007 @ 4:51 am
I am against the hypocritical censure
Comment by Eva Paul — May 13, 2007 @ 5:22 am
i agree
Comment by Nomolos Dryke — May 13, 2007 @ 5:37 am
Ghost menjou agrees
Comment by Joey Putseys — May 13, 2007 @ 8:06 am
i agree c/c should be enough info, ruining a good game by wanting that info.Why cant they put barriers like they do with free play.but put for a/o regions so kids dont go in there
Comment by Doover Oh — May 13, 2007 @ 8:35 am
not too happy about this…not a bit
Comment by Ivey Deschanel — May 13, 2007 @ 8:46 am
I simply -am not- comfortable giving up my social security number.
Comment by Rosemary Galbraith — May 13, 2007 @ 9:28 am
I thought thats what mature meant on the land we bought, and your not supposed to be in sl if your a minor. nuff said
Comment by candice burton — May 13, 2007 @ 9:43 am
Please dont do this LL. I t will ruin Second Life!
Comment by Curtis Haas — May 13, 2007 @ 9:44 am
This will probably take me out of Second Life. I value my privacy and will quit this too protect it.
Comment by Jaslow Bisiani — May 13, 2007 @ 9:53 am
if this crap goes through im out, so are alot of my friends on sl now… dont be ridiculous
Comment by Clay Miller — May 13, 2007 @ 10:28 am
NO to the age verification as currently outlined
I will not be giving out my SSN to a Third party here
Verification Yes but intrusive censorship requiring I place my information with a third party that gives NO guaruntees where that information may end up or for what purpose it will be used in gathering ’statistics” not on your life. I play in SL to be in the “adult’ areas if thats no longer an option with out this intrusive verification process then I will find other places to play and interact with people.
Comment by Arritalon Paine — May 13, 2007 @ 10:42 am
They have my credit card info, thats all they need. Parents need to keep track of their damn kids, not the internet.
Stick a warning up, this place has adult themes here and children under seventeen arent allowed. Thats all the Lindens should need. If Mumsy and Daddy are too busy to watch junior, that isnt LL’s fault. I watched what my daughter did on the net. if some other parent is too stupid and lazy, we shouldnt have to pay for it.
Comment by Kit Turnbull — May 13, 2007 @ 11:44 am
yup, I Agree too
Comment by Jun Hokkigai — May 13, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
I work in the medical field. I obey privacy rules governed by a law called HIPAA. You don’t want to know how much info can be called up on you given name, date of birth, and address! ((Search HIPAA, the standardization and coding parts! They’re trying to make such info MORE accessible, not less!)) Add a credit card number or ANY part of your soc sec # and you’ve just about invited them to Sunday dinner. I strenuously object to the current proposal, and point out, as did the author of this petition, that it is ILLEGAL to use social security #’s for identification purposes other than employment, taxes and workmen’s compensation. Last I checked, SL does not fall under any of those headings… unless we’re going to be required to pay real taxes on virtual earnings next! Want proof I’m over 18? Ask my credit card company how long I’ve had my account!
Comment by Bobby Goode — May 13, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
Damn straight. How am I supposed to have the suggested multiple freebie alts if they aren’t really free?
And slightly OT, I remember randomly clicking on things in the interface when I was getting started. The buy L$ button could have been a greivous temptation if I’d given my Credit Card data. Now that I know how to earn L$ in game I only use it when needed.
Comment by BC Writer — May 13, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
Sounds really bad to have to pay for something that should be free! Don´t let us all pay for what a limited number of peoples are doing. Don´t punish us all for that!
Comment by Behnzach Arad — May 13, 2007 @ 2:29 pm
Linden Labs stands on a slippery slope indeed.
When I started my second life I provided my birth date, home address, phone number, and debit card number, I entered into the contract in good faith and have watched in relative silence as the terms of that contract have been changed, breached and unilaterally nullified by Linden Labs.
The Rating system was originally linked to a monthly disbursement of Linden $; ostensibly, this was intended to promote good citizenship while providing a small stipend to residents in order to stimulate the virtual economy.
In support of this concept I paid out many Lindens for the purpose of rating other residents, and received ratings from others, but have never received a single disbursement. That’s fine; I buy my Lindens, and am not looking for a “Free Lunch”, just an example of unilateral change.
Buying my Lindens means that I have a very real sense that Lindens are cash,(.0038 per Linden last time I figured it out) despite Linden Labs statement that Lindens are not cash (likely an effort to sidestep restrictive gambling laws in the mythical realms of “Real”) now, we’re not talking about a huge sum here, but when my inventory evaporated when it was “moved to a faster server”, and I was told that I had to go and ask the vendors for replacements, it sucked; those Vendors I approached were gracious enough to replace the things I could prove I had lost, but realizing the unfair burden on both vendors and victims of that fiasco I only pursued the more expensive items; I lost thousands of lindens in inventory, but accepted the loss and created a second account to hold duplicates of anything important.
After all, whether you pay for them or not, Lindens are no longer money, right?
Fiat Currency in reverse, if you will.
What I see happening here, is that the world of Second Life, by virtue of the fact that the company which runs it is US based, is increasingly being drawn into the world of first life, and the coercive power of repressive real life governments seeks to impose sanctions, restrictions and legislated morality, we can’t have gambling, it’s illegal and immoral, what’s next? New rules defining marriage and partnership?
(Uncle Sam? I’m talking about you.)
By imposing restrictions on sl in order to avoid real life prosecution we begin our descent down the slippery slope; the cyberverse offers us an international platform, will Linden impose increasingly restrictive rules in order to comply with the most repressive laws in the real world? We’ll all be wearing veils and bhurkas if that comes to pass.
If Linden wishes to preserve it’s customer base then perhaps it’s time to relocate the company to a country which doesn’t seek to impose a stultifying and repressive morality, and embrace the international nature of the internet which provides it’s existence.
No reasonable person would wish to expose children to some of the sick shit I’ve seen here in SL, and I personally would like to see adulthood defined as 21, not 18; but having already provided significantly more information than is reasonable, I doubt that I will be complying with this.
Bumpy Breyer
Age 50
Comment by Bumpy Breyer — May 13, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
Agreed
Comment by Bastbar Barbosa — May 13, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
I live in England and while I would happily submit my payment info to SL as proof of age, I don’t see how I can forward important documents of mine to America for verification. Please use the same sort of age verification system as many pornography sites on the internet.
Age 26
Comment by CeCe Kungler — May 13, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
well i just think this is messed up this is gonna kill a big chunk of population from sl
Comment by Ashadeus Shepherd — May 13, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
i diaprove of it too.i think it is the duty of the parents of children below 18 to check on them to see what they are doing.i dont agree to giving more personal details.
Comment by Ki ariantho — May 13, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
Linden Labs is finding more and more ways to kill Second Life… I am selling half of my parcel today and going to continue to reduce the money I put into Second Life. This is bullshit.
Comment by Coventina Mendicant — May 13, 2007 @ 7:20 pm
Does anyone know how many Orientation Islands* there are in SL?
Divided by how many people disagree with this intrusive data-farming project announced by LL?
Does anyone know any good locations for ongoing protest parties?
Or how many can gather in a Region before it becomes disorientating..?
*Quick Note: Orientation Islands are where new settlers first arrive in SL.
The front door if you like.
The bottom-line if you will.
PLEASE DON’T USE THIS PETITION TO REPLY TO THIS POST
Please IM Malroy May in world or use malroymay@hotmail.co.uk
Comment by Malroy May — May 13, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
I won’t be doing this. And to protect the RL monetary value of my lindens, I have just cashed out my entire balance except for 10,000 for in world overhead. I have concerns that the Age Verification Fiasco, until resolved, could impact the linden/USDollar value and negatively effect my net worth. Until this is resolved, I will not store my lindens in my SL account, and will be cashing any profits made to my paypal account weekly.
Comment by Edward Gore — May 13, 2007 @ 8:21 pm
and signed!
Comment by Brutus Voss — May 13, 2007 @ 8:35 pm
signed, fix the damn lag problems instead of harassing people that have already approved of your terms of usage.
Comment by Lateknight Marvin — May 13, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
This is going to end badly for LL, they’re going to lose a LOT of people from Second Life. I personally have already cashed out the majority of my Lindens. This “upgrade” will definatly decrease the Linden exchange rate.
Personally, there is no way I’m going to put my personal info with LL, so far they have been the most insecure group I have seen. If this goes through, I’m done with SL, until they lose the verification.
Comment by Whistler Trottier — May 13, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
The age system is insane I do not even have to go through this on Big name websites advertized on T.V even for all the worlds kids to see.
On Yahoo and just about any other website I check a checkbox with a legal statement saying I over 18 to access far worse content In there Yahoo groups than Second Life could ever dream of being able to show with a bunch of polygons and text. (though the pictures and movies files maybe.)
Yahoo.com Has used this system for years with no problems obviously since there still using it! It is not some insane system where I have to get stripped searched in internet form to show I am an adult.
Comment by Koshi Yoshikawa — May 13, 2007 @ 9:09 pm
I want to save my privacy, im not made out of glass! whats next? do they want the size of my feet? or my eyecolor?
Comment by Death Berger — May 13, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
I am fully in agreement that it would be great to protect our kids and I’m a rabid protector of children from abuse, since I was a victim of child abuse by the hands of three people, all being family members of close friends of the family. I have a 12 year old. I am right behind him most time when he is on the net. When I am not, I have my ways to find where he’s been, i.e., history, new files, cached pics, tracking software. It’s really very very easy, but you DO HAVE TO ACT. To put this responsibility on anyone other than ourselves is irresponsible as parents. If you can’t trust your child to follow your best advice, simply unhook the router and take it with you before you leave home each day. It takes two seconds to undo/redo it and it’s too expensive for a child to buy without us finding out for the most part. IF THIS doesn’t make you feel more secure and stop your kids, then they are not going to be kept out of Second Life by the requirement of a part of our SS# or Dr.Lic #. Keeping our children safe is no one else’s responsibility than ours. Delegating this responsibility to corporate firms is like asking your physician to do your grocery shopping for you to make sure you stick to his medical advise on your food intake. YOU ASK TO MUCH and need to get serious about being a parent.
As many others have stated, the biggest problem with all this is the invasion of privacy issue and the HUGE issue of giving up such sensitive identity info. As a sim dev person I sometimes have to give up my real name and real address, but that does not put me as risk to have my identity stolen in most cases cause I am dealing with a none corporate entity. This does.
AND LET ME ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF ONLY BEING ASKED FOR THE LAST 4 DIGITS!!! Once upon a time I was employed by Sprint, who made us ask for the whole nine numbers of the social. Why? Simple. Imagine your in line at the bank or your utility company and the person as the counter asks for the last four digits of your social. You give it out without thinking. You pay your bill and turn around to leave and see your backyard neighbor, that guy you’re always bickering with about his tree leaves falling in your yard and whom you’ve had a few heated arguments over his son dating your daughter, or their pit bull getting loose, or him blocking the driveway. You know the drill. You see him writing down something … you don’t think too much about it. You’re just grateful you got out without another confrontation, cause the man just LOVES to argue!!! *rolls eyes*
Next week your wife leaves a message on your cell - its an emergency and you’re hoping its not that stupid neighbor again, whom you once again had a verbal battle with just last night. The utilities are off. She asks if you paid the bill. You say of coarse. You call and ask why and they inform you that at 8am you ordered them to be turned off!!! After hours of screaming, threatening and pleading you finally get a light bulb moment after the utility company says its not their fault that you have to pay a reconnection fee, cause the person who called for this verified the account correctly, with your name, your mother’s maiden last name that she uses all the time since the divorce, and MOST IMPORTANTLY THE LAST FOUR DIGITS OF YOUR SOCIAL!!! You remember the neighbor writing down something while in line and you understand now just how easy it is to have a small part of your life turned everything upside down. And now you are worried about your credit cards, and store cards and all the other services you use that only require those things to gain access to your accounts!!! Welcome to the world of identity theft and look forward to spending the next 2 to 10 years trying to get it cleaned up. And guess what? Because there was no paper trail he can just keep doing this until you change your social and all your credit cards and account numbers and its your word against his. And even if you were successful connecting him to the downturn of your credit status, YOU CAN’T SUE FOR DAMAGE TO YOUR CREDIT HISTORY DUE TO ILLEGAL OR MALICIOUS ACTIONS BY A KNOWN OR UNKNOWN PARTY!
Some will say giving out our CC# is the same as your SS# or Dr. Lic.#. Its not!!! This is a true story and it happens over and over every day, cause be reducing the need to only the last four digits has just made it infinitely easier for anyone of passing acquaintance to mess with your very life CAUSE THEY ONLY HAVE TO REMEMBER FOUR LITTLE NUMBERS! OK .. Now back to SL reasons …
I run a sim dev firm .. Not into adult content, but I do enjoy time with my RL/SL companion in 2nd life. And yes, that does include intimate moments in our windowless skybox high above our land. What we do behind those walls should be deemed private and consensual. It is sexually explicit but perfectly normal. We are having pixel intercourse. My nightmare is that some “child” or a competitor dressed as a non-verified “child” or “concerned mother” will camming into our love nest, then report us for abuse and we get banned from our island, cause our landlord does not want the stigma of being a red flagged sim. This to me is no different than the warning Orsen Wells gave us in the book, 1984 or he communist hunt of the 40’s. DOES LINDEN LABS REALLY WISH OR NEED TO BE THE COMPANY TO HERALD IN THE AGE OF BIG BROTHER?!?!?!?!
Its time to take a stand folks, or lose all our privacy rights at the hands of a overly protective company that is too scared to stand up for our rights to privacy - WHO WOULD SO WILLINGLY HAND US OVER AS RANDSOM TO COVER THEIR ASSES THEN DEFEND OUR RIGHTS BY JUST SAYING … They are YOUR children … they breach the contract when they entered and lied about their age. Take responsibility for what happens under YOUR ROOF, instead of expecting the WHOLE WORLD to play parent to your child whilst you get some pixel nooky on your laptop in the next room!!! *shakes head* Take my credit card and PayPal account info and protect us from identity theft by not asking for us to hand over the “keys to the kingdom” to play and work in SL.
I am stating now that I will be boycotting Second Life Friday, Saturday and Sunday of this coming weekend as they run their beta tests. WHO WILL FOLLOW ME AND HIT THE BUSINESS AND CORPORATE ENTITIES OF SL DURING THIER HIGHEST VOLUMN TIME???
Comment by Tessa Harrington — May 13, 2007 @ 10:50 pm
This is just cyber fun - not real people - get real keep it as it is!
Comment by Beckie Charming — May 13, 2007 @ 11:29 pm
I’ve been here for 3 years now. I wasn’t underage then so I am definatly not so now. I’ve been charged to open up my accounts and my alts, so why should I pay to prove I’m of age when I paid to open these accounts that can only be sold to adults???
Comment by Zalmoxis Xevious — May 13, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
I am 40 y/o
Comment by franqui Igaly — May 13, 2007 @ 11:50 pm
I think it is absolutely crazy the whole age thing anyone can get hold of fake id so what will this prove? Its just a way of Linden Labs to try and extract some more money out of us!
Comment by Cornealious Eagleburger — May 13, 2007 @ 11:50 pm
This is the worst idea I think I’ve ever heard. There is no way, none, that I would give my personal information to any company and risk identity theft to ‘play’ a game. Absolutely retarded idea!! If I can buy legal porn sold legally anywhere in the world and my credit card is verification enough that I am legal age than that should, and is good enough to me and all the legal porn sites in the world. LL’s billing company can work out a deal with Visa/MC/AE etc to block cards registered to under 18 people but I will not, ever, give my personal info to anyone who can do what they will with that info. Dumb idea LL’s, real dumb
Comment by Ooleteq Khan — May 14, 2007 @ 12:10 am
I sign this in the refusal to divulge more of my personal info than I alresdy provided on sign up. My Credit Card details are obviously good enough to spend money in SL so it should be enough for verification. Don’t punish adults because teens are breaching their contracts. ~Apollonia
Comment by Apollonia Syaka — May 14, 2007 @ 12:16 am
Damn right. I gave the Linden more than enough information already, and stated I was over 18. If they want any more, they can piss right off, and that includes no more of my money. Hey, Lindens! Let’s see how your much hailed in-game economy works when we’re all not contributing a cent? Get a clue, please.
Comment by Chelsea Ellsberg — May 14, 2007 @ 12:35 am
I do want to divulge more data; my privacy is being invaded. I don’t need SL; they need me. We may have to part company.
Comment by eh tomcat — May 14, 2007 @ 1:19 am
I cant believe that Linden is asking us to divulge our personal details to someone we have no account with. This is a blatant invasion of privacy. I am well over 18 and I do not trust anyone with my personal details. How much will Linden compensate us if the information is in any way stolen and used for criminal purposes.
Comment by Craig Roberts — May 14, 2007 @ 1:56 am
Hell yeah i agree with you.
Comment by Adam Gough — May 14, 2007 @ 2:04 am
Credit card is sufficent ID; I do not want my privacy further invaided.
Comment by eh tomcat — May 14, 2007 @ 2:27 am
Agreed. These changes aren’t a good thing, especially in the way they’re trying to go about it. I will be addressing several things in a blog comment in detail, so I’m not going into them all here as well. I will say a few things though. 1) If this is being instigated by a specific type of content, like the “child porn” that’s been brought up repeatedly, then deal with that kind of content. Kiddie porn’s illegal, take action against it. 2) If part of it is porn in general (i.e. non-illegal porn), then honestly it is a child’s guardian’s responsibility to deal with what content they view online, not Linden Labs. Or at least use the same kind of age verification porn sites use. Credit Card, Birth Date and Name (as well as a TOS for adults and seperate for Teens which state that they are an adult). 3) Privacy concerns of course, which relate to 4) Computer Crimes (hacking, selling of private data, etc) concerns. As with so many other things, this is being approached bass ackwards. The issues should be dealt with issue by issue, i.e. kiddie porn, adult content, how to verify status as legal adult (based on online standards) if necessary (alternative methods accepted) and such. If they push this too hard and in the wrong ways, they’ll not only piss off and chase off a majority of regular users, but also (and at least as detrimental to them), their content creators, which will cycle back to a bigger loss of users back to creators, etc. If we can’t make money because unverified users can’t access our “adult content”, how long will we continue making content for SL before we move on to somewhere else where we can make money again? And if the content creators start leaving, how long will other users continue using SL when it starts to stagnate and new, advanced, unique content stops becoming available? It’s a viscious cycle and that is something that needs to be understood by Linden Labs. There ARE other virutal worlds out there and several new ones in development, including one cluster based one which will be exponentially more customizable than SL. If LL doesn’t want users to migrate, they need to guide things in the direction that the users want. — Nuff said.
Comment by Chavo Raven — May 14, 2007 @ 3:13 am
Erroneous on all accounts!
Comment by Alyssa Chastity — May 14, 2007 @ 4:19 am
Thoroughly lame, but not unexpected. Chalk it up to lawyers. LL has every right to demand anything they want of us, it’s their sandbox. We have a right to tell them to go pound sand, and take our business and play elsewhere. Simple. Bye bye LL. It was fun while it lasted. If my credit card info on account isn’t enough for you, you damn well aren’t going to get my government issued identification.
Fuck you very much….please drive through.
Comment by Christopher Goff — May 14, 2007 @ 5:22 am
There it is. Shilandar Deledda is my SL name. I have to say that this ‘additional layer of protection’ is absolute B.S. Again, a contract was already signed. This is completely unnecessary, will NOT change anything, except to create a great deal of frustrated people.
Comment by Shilandar Deledda — May 14, 2007 @ 5:28 am
I completely agree. This.. for lack of a better word.. is crap. I have payment info on file and it’s used through Paypal. That should be good enough. If it’s not and this does go through. I’ll be playing elsewhere, as I’m sure many others will. SL’s business is going to suffer, hope they accounted for that.
Comment by Alorellen Chamerberlin — May 14, 2007 @ 5:32 am
I strenuously object to the proposed age verification system.
Comment by Melissa Yeuxdoux — May 14, 2007 @ 5:42 am
I am wholly AGAINST newer verification. CC verification is used for adult orientated sites. They are ALL about porn, and CC is sufficient. LL should accept that
Comment by Ivan Kennedy — May 14, 2007 @ 5:56 am
If LL finally requires the age verification I´ll leave Second Life, and as I see I´m not going to be the only one.
Comment by Salma Barbosa — May 14, 2007 @ 8:59 am
I’m 110% against this new verification business.
Comment by Amber Paike — May 14, 2007 @ 9:00 am
Ridiculous, utterly ridiculous. I am not paying a damn fee every time I go to a gorean sim because of some unsupervised little kid sneaking onto their parent’s computer. Like it was said before: WE make the content, WE have the right.
Comment by Rebi-Kohime — May 14, 2007 @ 9:14 am
True, asking for someones SS Number is against the law in the US. LL claims Aristotle, the third party is only asking for the last four digits, but you need to know something about how SS numbers are issued. The first 3 numbers tell where you were born, the middle 2 tell what year you were born, and the last 4 are random. An identity thief, will assume you were born near where you currently live and be able to in most cases to figure out the first three digits of your SS number. Once the criminal knows the year you were born they will know the middle 2 digits of your SS number. If you give them the last four digits, they will know your entire SS number and be able take out loans in you name, obtain credit cards in your name and basically ruin your life. I’m not saying LL or Aristotle is going to intentionally destroy your credit but that just one hacker will be able to put you thousands of dollars in debt if they access LL or Aristotles database.
Comment by Cat Calliope — May 14, 2007 @ 9:46 am
No way in hell, this is totally wrong!
Comment by Jester Spearmann — May 14, 2007 @ 10:57 am
Plz don’t do this: more trouble then benefit
what about the non US residents… different laws, different compagnies: asking for more trouble
plz listing to your residents: this is a nice game… so far. Don’t spoil it.
I’m strongly opposed to any use of online id info:
- id’s can be stolen (no site is hackproof)
- id’s can by misused (id theft)
- id registration does not solve the problems (lots of ways around it)
- cannot be implemented worldwide: to many different laws all over the world
- to expensive for non paying members (how many will this cost me, do i have to start saving money?)
from: Gee Noel
(starting SL painter with a free gallery: Gee’s Air Gallery)
Comment by Gee Noel — May 14, 2007 @ 11:50 am
Plz don’t do this: more trouble then benefit
what about the non US residents… different laws, different compagnies: asking for more trouble
No id registration.. Not in this way.
Please listen to your residents: this is a nice game… so far. Don’t spoil it.
I’m strongly opposed to any use of online id info:
- id’s can be stolen (no site is hackproof)
- id’s can by misused (id theft)
- id registration does not solve the problems (lots of ways around it)
- cannot be implemented worldwide: to many different laws all over the world
- to expensive for non paying members (how many will this cost me, do i have to start saving money?)
from: Gee Noel
(starting SL painter with a free gallery: Gee’s Air Gallery)
Comment by Gee Noel — May 14, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Before I became a member of SL in 2005, I was a member of another virtual world (actually 2 different worlds with the same parent company, VZones). My association with that other company began clear back in 2000.
VZones originally advertised one of their worlds - VZ Connections - as an “adult-only” product back in 1998. It was conceived as a virtual dating place for adults, and the parent company even worked in tandem with an online dating service. But that began to change within a couple of years.
How and why did it change? Well, management wanted to expand business. At the time, virtual worlds were still in their infancy. VZC had a small but loyal group of members, but the business wasn’t expanding as quickly as management wanted it to expand. So, to get new people to try their service, they decided to offer both free accounts, and greatly discounted paid memberships in VZC. And though new members still had to check that “I certify that I am at least 18 years of age” box, they didn’t have to furnish credit card numbers to become free members.
Free accounts were restricted to the “free areas”. It’s hard to compare apples to oranges here, but it would be like restricting all of the “no payment info on file” members in SL to say, 20 or 25 sims in all of SL. But for the nominal price of $9.95 USD, you could buy a 6-month account that had full access to VZC.
The end result of this offer was nothing but PURE CHAOS, for both members and management.
What they discovered was that - instead of attracting NEW customers - their discounted price was encouraging their present membership to invest in as many alt accounts as they could afford to carry. It also encouraged some families to allow their teenagers to have accounts there.
Their kids wanted those accounts…..they saw Mom & Dad having fun with those little avatars, and they wanted to join in. Some of the more liberal parents saw no harm in it. But they usually let the kids start in the free areas.
The free areas were more like free-for-alls. That’s where the griefers, cheats and con artists liked to hang out. Being in the free areas for any length of time was a uniquely unpleasant experience. The main inhabitants there invariably swore like sailors and acted like prize creeps. But once Mom and/or Dad had allowed their kids into VZC, they found it difficult to cancel their kids’ accounts. So their kids stayed IW and “under their supervision” (yeah, right), with paid accounts.
Eventually VZones’ management wised-up to the fact that they really hadn’t gained that many NEW paying customers with their free and discounted membership offers. They quit offering the free accounts, which (for the most part) was a GOOD thing. Ridding themselves of the free accounts also got rid of most of the troublemakers…..though there were some who had become so heavily vested in VZC that they decided to stay and pay their monthly membership fees.
Then there were the members who had joined at the discount rate. Those accounts were allowed to stay through their current 6-month membership period…..but once that last 6 months was up they had to start paying $9.95 per month, per account. There was a huge outcry against management’s decision to also stop offering the discounted memberships in VZC, and many people left because of it. The once heavily-prolific alt accounts became much more rare.
VZC no longer exists under that name, and the world it has evolved into now touts itself as a PG-13 world…..much to the dismay of most of the oldbies there. The partnership with the online dating service is long gone. I would conservatively guess that they have lost at least 50% of their old (and formerly VERY loyal) customer base, due to this and other issues. I dropped my last account there last month, after being a member of 7 years AND a former staffer.
The reason I bring this up is that I see history repeating itself in SL, and it saddens me. I’m NOT saying that everyone with a “no payment info given” account is a low-life (that wasn’t the case in VZC, either), but the sheer proliferation of those accounts has to also raise the likelihood of encountering more cheats and griefers.
Having said all that, I agree with almost everyone here that it’s patently ridiculous of LL to start “carding” all of its legitimate members, especially when those members who were caught in this age play incident were both - in fact - of legal age. I simply don’t see where age play in general has anything to do with minors being present in the adult grid.
LL has been no more or less remiss in its membership requirements than other similar companies. IMO, if a relative handful of deviously clever teenagers manages to make it into SL by deceptive means, then anything “harmful” they might happen to see is their own doing. Instead of getting angry at LL and threatening legal action, parents should be punishing their kids for their dishonesty. And while they’re at it, they need to take stock of their own lack of responsibility, in not supervising their offsping more closely.
LL cannot seriously be considering what so many fear. Until (and unless) it actually happens, I’ll view it as so much farting in the wind. They cannot legally ask for personal information (i.e. Social Security or Passport numbers), so why worry ourselves sick over it? And think about it….they are going to try and force over 6 MILLION members to provide proof of age?
I think once they consider all of the ramifications of this idea, LL will realize that they are:
1. overreacting,
2. directing their overreaction toward the wrong parties,
3. overstepping their bounds both legally and logistically,
4. seriously underestimating how many loyal customers they will offend.
They may just back off before this “plan” ever comes to fruition. Let’s all HOPE so.
Comment by T. Trudeau — May 14, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
I agree… No id verification system.. Not this way
(id theft, ever heard of it?)
Gee Noel (starting not very rich painter with a free gallery: Gee’s Air Gallery)
Comment by Gee Noel — May 14, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
Card verification should be enough
Comment by Markus Claymore — May 14, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
This is some fuckin’ grade A bullshit right here. All it takes is for two child porn peddlers to screw up everything for the rest of us. The whole thing reeks of Orwell’s 1984.
Bad Wampa. No Donut.
Comment by Terren Hax — May 14, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
No 1984.
Comment by Caliah Lyon — May 14, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
I’ve been on sl for over 18 months and put countless dollars on my credit card. That’s all the verification they need.
Comment by livy benavente — May 14, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
I’m not suppling my passport data to anyone except government officials. It will be GOOD BYE SL. Anyone looking for Land?
Comment by Wie Wunderlich — May 14, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
just take me there
Comment by Stax — May 14, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
Will be interesting to watch the Lindex on the day they implement this and a few thousand people cash out every single $L they possess into real cash before SL totally goes belly-up. Not only that, I want to see the skyline glow from the number of people who will trash their entire inventory so that ‘Big Brother’ can’t just ban your account, confiscate your items, turn around and make a killing selling it off themselves. I’ll bring the wienies and marshmallows if someone else wants to bring the beer.
Comment by hope Antonelli — May 14, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
I strongly oppose the intended age verification system for Second Life.
Comment by Hano Kohime — May 14, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
i am against age verification as well and i believe it will cause more problems than it will solve, both for LL and the people playing SL
Comment by Natalyia Eclipse — May 14, 2007 @ 6:19 pm
Aye
Comment by Revons Rutabaga — May 14, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
I’ve done some dumbass things in my day but I wont ever give anyone my SSN, passport, drivers licence, or any other official ID unless its a cop or the government asking for it. You got my credit card. That’s loads enough. Y’all may be lookin at one very empty world if you implement this boneheaded plan.
Comment by Gambit Reve — May 14, 2007 @ 6:43 pm
Bad idea the age verifacation. This will put the adult industry out of business and clean up second life that is promoted by all the media groups as a big sex haven.
This will clean up the overall image of Second life and will become attractive to corporations world wide.
I see in the future avatars rubbing elbows with others in public places with recruiters from large companies and giving people real life employment options.
I hate to see any one lose their business they have put a lot of hope, time and money in but those are the risks involved with any type of business venture.
As for the people who must see adult entertainment easy solution. Create your own stripper or escort avatar and you can have all the fun you want and is a lot cheaper I am sure in the long run. LL does not care what you do in the privacy of your own space.
Need your alt to talk? Easy buy the excite program like the real escorts use. type in the other comments that the strippers make to convince you to part with your money into your other keyboard. Just as empty and meaningless right?
Once again I am against the devulging of my private information to anyone. Do not use it find another way around the rules to have your fun.
Comment by What now — May 14, 2007 @ 6:47 pm
I’m totally against this! It will not prevent any of the things that have happened so far from happening again, and it will ruin many, if not most, businesses in SL, including mine (I make sex beds…).
New content will slow to a trickle, and I am quite sure some competitor will see this as the golden opportunity to go fish residents from the market leader.
Given half a chance at a decent alternative, I would switch - LL is not addressing the issues the people are concerned with, but rather they have their own agenda of feature bloat and unpopular measures.
And, yes, I am thinking of selling up and cashing out!
Comment by Melanie Milland — May 14, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
Age verification in the manner Linden Lab’s is trying to push onto us is a violation of my rights as an adult. Do they take your drivers liscense and keep the information for 2 years when you buy beer, cigarettes, or a playboy magazine? No. Do they take that information and keep it for two years when you pay to access a porn site on the web? No. They accept a credit card which is more than enough. It’s my responsibility to keep my kids away from this stuff. It is a parents responsibility, not Linden Lab’s.
For some reason I get the feeling the bottom line here is money and LL wants more.
Comment by Zina Aska — May 14, 2007 @ 7:05 pm
All this will do is put legitimate users under pressure. How will it stop griefing? It won’t
It’s impractical, and could cause Linde Lab to kill the golden egg laying goose
Comment by Salamander Maroon — May 14, 2007 @ 7:07 pm
All this will do is put legitimate users under pressure. How will it stop griefing? It won’t!
It’s impractical, and could cause Linden Lab to kill the golden egg laying goose
Comment by Salamander Maroon — May 14, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
Signed
Comment by Enktan Gully — May 14, 2007 @ 7:10 pm
Im fine with checking ages, especially since this is SUPPOSED to be an adults only place. But I cannot willingly give out my private information just to prove what my CC and paypal already knows. My driver’s liscence and social security number, even the last four digits, is very dangerous if hacked. You can go along way today with only the last four digits of a SS#. This is another place online with adult themes. It’s a parents job to ensure their children are watched and not interacting in adult behaviors. And really, if a child wishes to see porn, its easier, faster, and leaves less footprints for parents if they just google search for it…
/signed
Comment by Nym Amat — May 14, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
Signed
Comment by Hanna Huffhines — May 14, 2007 @ 7:14 pm
I agree, I wont give my SSN!
Comment by Odessy Forcella — May 14, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
I’ll likely join the exodus from SL if the worst comes of it.
Comment by Justin Duell — May 14, 2007 @ 8:40 pm
no 1984 at second life… not as long my identity will be not safe from us government in their international law breaking “war against terror”
Comment by snoer — May 14, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
I agree!
Comment by Xerix Balut — May 14, 2007 @ 9:36 pm
Signed, lets burn those dumbasses.
Comment by Sol Cult — May 14, 2007 @ 9:50 pm
Enough already LL may not use the info for political or other gain but lets be honest little things happen, does anyone remember the password problem from not that long ago, not we give cc info and ID info? Asking for trouble with get its attention, and this is asking for it. The company they seemed to select is all about political motivations I am all TOOO sure information will “accidentally” or “without Intent” be screened and moved over to various lists, all as a accident of course.
Leslie Like a bit of privacy
Comment by Leslie Lightworker — May 14, 2007 @ 10:10 pm
Its sad to see this happen I’ve been playing this game since I was 18 that was three years ago!
I like my credit card to be able to be my verification since then I feel safe in the fact that no one will get my identity and use it for some ‘evil’ purpose. It annoyed me when they got rid of the ‘Rate’ system but this is taking it a step to far in this case.
If this does go though they will lose more than enough people and think “Oh this was a bad idea after all”
I would say a good number of people at LL are disagreeing with this as it is do they really need 6M+ to tell them otherwise?
I would think that a good half of those people will leave unwilling to return untill this idea of their’s will be removed.
Comment by Calico Maltz — May 14, 2007 @ 10:33 pm
This is over-the-top by LL, IMO.
Comment by Trevor Langdon — May 14, 2007 @ 10:53 pm
ALL PART OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER
Comment by ummm pickles — May 14, 2007 @ 11:01 pm
Not me!
Comment by Lisa Fossett — May 15, 2007 @ 1:51 am
Dear Lindens, this age verification is not a good thing. I don’t want to repeat everyone comments, but I am very concerned about the potential security risk posed by sending you this kind of info. Last fall you claimed you were hacked and reset everyone’s password for a measure of safety. What happens whey you are hacked again? This information is very dangerous in the wrong hands, let alone some marketer who gets his or her paws on it.
These two things alone make the risk seem to outweigh any percived additional protection garnered by using the new age-verification scheme, when there are alread safeguards in place including terms of agreement that specify Second Life is for 18 and older.
In the end this, at best, seems you are asking US to take a huge risk only for some vague, additional legal protection to cover YOU. At worst? I don’t even want to go into some of the theories behind this I have heard.
Bottom line? SL is a really cool, vibrant community that I will be very sad to have to cashout, leave, and spend my money elsewhere if I am forced to input this sort of information; because I will not do it.
Comment by Tabitha Somme — May 15, 2007 @ 3:12 am
This is ridiculous. The people at LL are going to destroy their jobs.
Comment by Alexi Moskvitch — May 15, 2007 @ 3:13 am
I agree fully !
Comment by Murdock McMahon — May 15, 2007 @ 6:35 am
Save the children, but save my Privacy ! ! !
Comment by Hippo Pfeffer — May 15, 2007 @ 7:14 am
I totally agree !!
Comment by Jacky Hyde — May 15, 2007 @ 8:01 am
There are better ways to protect kids, and safer for private information as well. Oh and if looking into this is too
costly, you may use our rating money for that purpose.
Comment by Greg Giotto — May 15, 2007 @ 8:50 am
Cannot agree more ^^
Comment by Veronique Fabre — May 15, 2007 @ 9:37 am
I will not be giving anyone any more private information than I already have. Nobody is supposed to be doing illegal things in SL already, just enforce that. Don’t make the six million who are behaving legally pay for the crimes of a handful. There are vampires in SL also, will we have to start giving blood types or something? And I’m not even gonna mention beastiality… Oh I just did… Sorry! Will we have to get a license to fly a plane or drive a car in SL? Don’t over react! If it ends up JUST LIKE real life, we will just not log in. Careful what you wish for. P.S. They aren’t really vampires, they just play them in SL, I think.
Comment by Agramzu Hand — May 15, 2007 @ 10:13 am
no personal info on file for LL
Comment by aluher rehula — May 15, 2007 @ 10:34 am
NEVER NOT WITH US
Comment by mister grut — May 15, 2007 @ 10:42 am
RL has become overly political becouse of polices just like this one. Most state’s in the US treet there residents like children and govern there lives to un unacceptable degree of controll. If the Lindens plan to start doing the same, count me out!!!
Comment by Ryu Quasimodo — May 15, 2007 @ 11:58 am
Agree totally shouldn’t be allowed to happen
Comment by helena saarinen — May 15, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
if this comes to pass the population should plummet and other games like furcadia and gaia online will profit. they’ll be sorry if they dont stop while their ahead.
Comment by Scadge Riiser — May 15, 2007 @ 1:10 pm
so much for sl being a mostly “free” online game freedom doesnt require validation unless your in a concentration camp and that is far beyond freedom.
Comment by Iami Sakai — May 15, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
i agree with everything that is stated here…no way will i give up my SS no.
Comment by Roku2 Hallard — May 15, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
it is a rediculas expectation and I will not be giving up such private information for an opportunity to play a video game.
Comment by Sven Enfield — May 15, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
I agree fully with this petition!!!!!
Comment by Misty — May 15, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
Here you have another one that´s against the age verification.
Comment by Mikhail Centaur — May 15, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
Your social security number is private. Why don’t they go ahead and ask for your bank card’s PIN number as well? Big Brother at its best. With all the publicity wouldn’t surprise me if the gov’t has a hand in this.
Comment by Wolf Forester — May 15, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
Yeah, sure. Right. Nice try, Linden Labs. This whole ‘changing the system and running users off’ seems to be an epidemic as of late. Second Life’s engine already pushes people’s patience at being outdated and inflexible. Asking such rediculous measures is pushing things too far, unless of course their intent IS to shoot themselves in both feet. Pathetic.
Comment by Trojan Maltz — May 15, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
What about all the NON-us residents who can’t even use a social security number? Ridiculous
Comment by Marek Czervik — May 15, 2007 @ 4:06 pm
I Concur.
Comment by Syn — May 15, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
This is a bad idea.
Comment by Casper Whitfield — May 15, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
I agree - I have no problem with age verification but having to pay is just crazy!!!
Comment by Noelle March — May 15, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
This is not about age verification. It’s about the way and “why” LL are doing that. I’m already pissed of having my CC infos on hands that had proven to have low sense of security (recent db crack), I’m pissed off to having the to ppl that now show us a very low ethic profile (charge us for LL faults?!?). And I’m really concerned about the fact that I’ma paying customer, I’ve signed a contract, I pay a lot of real money for a BAD service, and now they are trying to say that will be “my fault” if I can’t get the full service that I payd for, because I don’t want to give them more personal infos? This is not only crazy, this is offensive, and against the constitutional rules of the most of world countries.
Comment by Kanna Shirakawa — May 15, 2007 @ 5:58 pm
In modern society it’s the manufacturers fault when a product is misused, its the same situation with this. Thanks to some recent freakouts about child porn and the simple fact that nekkid people are everywhere and (the US at least) are hardcore anal retentive prudes when it comes to the human body, LL is deathly afraid that its going to get sued badly the first time its found that underage kids are in SL looking at boobs.
I can understand this fear but that shouldnt drive them to gank all our personal, sensitive information just to appease the watchdog types who are waiting to hammer anyone that deviates from the rules they wish to impose. The internet is full of much worse, and its much easier to access than anything in SL. If kids are gonna look for this stuff, they will find it no matter how much verification we require. I absolutely agree with what has been said many many many times before: The old system works just fine
Comment by Marv Whittaker — May 15, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
I really wish there were places where adults could meet without having to pay for it…
Comment by Kim Alder — May 15, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
I completely agree with you.
Comment by FireTyger Stonecutter — May 15, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
I would personally refuse to sign up to anthing that asks for more than the basic age confirmation. This can be done by insisting that credit cards are registered with paypal when you make your initial payment.
LL is just trying to gt rid of what put it in it’ present position, a choice!
As previously mentioned, I don’t think there’s one person in SL that would undertake the fantasies they play out in here.
Those who would undertake such things are fishing child chat rooms an making out they are kids, not playing in SL.
THIS IS FANTASY… NOT REAL!
Comment by Iona Market — May 15, 2007 @ 7:07 pm
Totally agree with you all!
SL is for fantasy… sickos don’t want to play fantasy… they are on chat rooms trying to groom kids inreal life.
Make sure paypal will only accept credit card details for those wanting adult play and that protects you from children getting into adult area!
Protect your freedom!!!!
Comment by Iona Market — May 15, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
Like so many others, its not the fact that they are trying to protect children (who shouldnt have been here in the first place, ahem) that bugs me. Its saying that -I- should have to pony up L$ to prove my age, oh…and in six months when someone decides to go after all the Goreans, that will be another charge to prove that I don’t actually indulge in rl slavery, because thats offensive and against the law too you know. Or another fee to prove you have a ministerial license to be preaching in my little chapel (oh that will be another charge to make sure the sanctuary meets building specifications…cant have it crashing down on our virtual heads after all.)on virtual land which I already pay for with REAL dollars as it is. Oh, and escorts..you’ll be paying virtual ‘legal fee’s to the virtual lawyers that will have to bail you out of vitual jail since we all know that prostitution is illegal, right? hrmm..which brings up the matter of virtual income and sales taxes..someone has to pay those policemen and judges don’t they? Okay, I know its getting a bit silly…but anyone catch the very REAL threat of the slippery slope we are heading down at this point?
Comment by hope Antonelli — May 15, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Myri Whitfield signs, this is a rather annoyhing addition to SL
Comment by Myri — May 15, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
I can understand that its to stop minors from entering the site to accessing the adult content. But when you sign on to Sl you confirm you are over 18. I will not give such personal details , as This can get in to the wrong hands as LL know all ready. I belive you will lose a lot of people and Sl will probley end as it is now . Dont do it, you have covered your selfves by the for said disclosure at the signing on. i am well over 18 and understand but , doing this will be the end I think for SL- think carefully.
Comment by fantasia babenco — May 15, 2007 @ 8:27 pm
just no to age-verification
Comment by beer Balogh — May 15, 2007 @ 8:28 pm
just no to age-verification!!
Comment by beer balogh — May 15, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
It just sounds like as we say in the Netherlands: killing a musqueto with a canon. And the worst thing is in this case that the canon will miss the musqueto and hit the entire well behaved population.
Comment by Irene Amat — May 15, 2007 @ 8:35 pm
I have to agree here….this is dumb
Comment by TheChaddling Kuu — May 15, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
AMEN! This is a terrible plan.
Comment by Ken Serapis — May 15, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
Kill this plan! It is horrendous. :>
Comment by Coco Colonial — May 15, 2007 @ 9:11 pm
I agree, absolutely
Comment by Vlad777 Pinion — May 15, 2007 @ 9:12 pm
http://www.moopf.com/name2key.php
Seeing how people can get information on people just from SL bothers me. Here is an example.
Comment by What now — May 15, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
Hey this is the last shit i ever seen why i should show them my age verify than i can go instantly to the damn fbi and say guys iam a terrorist-.- as example
Comment by Melandro Inada — May 15, 2007 @ 10:58 pm
You’ve got my sig.
Comment by Roninz0rz Noarlunga — May 15, 2007 @ 11:06 pm
Absolutely horrible idea! Giving out important personal info like this to a potentially unsecure and unknown 3rd party is ridiculous. Way to take a fun game and potentially let it ruin your privacy, your credit and your life.
Comment by Tucker Whitfield — May 15, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
crap
Comment by Sarah Linton — May 15, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
I don’t like this one bit alot of my business will go away in Second life..i run a shop that attracts alot of younger people and if they dont buy something then ill go bankrupt also isnt a credit card enough? i dont have a drivers license i take the bus to work i should be able to use second life for free without giving up my identity
Comment by willum282 schertzinger — May 16, 2007 @ 12:05 am
If using a credit card is sufficient proof of age to join any porn site in the world, at least according to the United States government, how can it not be enough for Second Life? This makes no sense whatsoever…
Comment by ludwig hogfather — May 16, 2007 @ 12:31 am
SOLUTIONS!!! … please go and tell the ACLU, American Civil Liberties Union about our plight at
http://www.aclu.org/contact/general/index.html
HERE IS MY LETTER. FEEL FREE TO USE IT, EDIT IT, ADD YOUR TWO CENTS.
Secondlife.com, MMPORG online that is completely created and owned by its “residents”, retaining any and all intellectual and copyrights to their work and some even making a living from their work in SecondLife.com, because the virtual currency, Lindies, are convertible to real USD at a rate of $4.06 for every one US dollar. In reality it isn’t a “game”, but rather the next evolution of the world wide web, going from a page to read to rather a place to go and interact socially and network with fellow business associates. This is why all the big name companies are in Secondlife.com, i.e., IBM, Toyota, Fox, TV, HBO, Sony, CNN, Reuters and the list goes on and on.
Six million international users play and work on what is called the Main Grid, virtual land owned and managed by Linden Labs, the parent company behind Secondlife.com., and privately owned islands better known as “sims” that are bought by residents at a price of $1,200 to $1,700 USD with a month hosting fee of approximately $200 to $300 USD per month. These virtual environs can allow users to do most anything you can in RL, including have very realistic and sexually explicit intercourse online using highly sophisticated avatars and “on-demand” poses integrated into furniture or by using stand-alone “pose balls”. Avatars can be customized to the extreme, making their user appear like a small infant or an 80 year old person and even Furries, hybrid animal/people. It is estimated that 80% or more of the Secondlife.com user base engages in cyber sex. The majority of the user base are US citizens, and Linden Labs is a US company.
Linden Labs is proposing and has signed a contract with http://integrity.aristotle.com/
to restrict access to approximately 50 to 80 percent of the land masses created by their user base as a knee jerk reaction to a age-play incident that occurred between a 54 year old man and a 27 year old woman who changed her avatar’s appearance to resemble a child.
*****
http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/05/09/accusations-regarding-child-pornography-in-second-life/
Under the proposed guidelines, “anything sexually explicit or violent” will be forced to take on Linden Labs’ version of the Scarlet Letter, a Red Flag on their land that is already identified as being in a Mature zone, as opposed to PG rated land.
*** http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/05/04/age-and-indentity-verification-in-second-life/
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/showthread.php?t=12397
Once a resident’s land is red flagged they’ll not be able to access their own virtual land or homes that they pay for, using either real USD via PayPal or the fully convertible to USD Linden currency, Lindies until they “verify” that they are of legal age to be in Secondlife.com. Until they do that they are essentially locked out of their property. They may call Linden Lab’s Help Desk via the phone, but Linden Lab’s has seen fit to downsize their help staff from an few hundred in world avatar’s ready to take help request of all types, to five personnel manning their phones at their main head quarters. It can take literally weeks to get any response from them on a simple inventory loss issue. One can only imagine the wait it would be to rectify any issues related to an erroneously red flagged property. It seems that Linden Labs has reduced their help desk staff just in time to have plausible denial of timely service and an argument of ignorance of any problems is mass. After all, how can you know what the problems are if your customers can get a call to be answered?. How can they be held responsible for customer complaints they never hear cause the customer’s can’t get to a live person when there are 6 million users and only FIVE employees to handle their needs.
What they are proposing to do to “protect” children on the main grid, that is already supposed to be for adults only per the TOS (terms of service agreement), is to require everyone who engages in sexually explicit activities in Second Life to hand over sensitive identity information to Integrity, putting their financial well being at risk. Some Residents feel it is Linden Lab’s way of culling sensitive Identity information from their rich tapestry user base that includes lawyers, doctors, university professors, IT executives. Integrity/Aristotle is the verification company Linden Labs has signed a contract with, a company who was busted and earned an article in Wired magazine for being a data miner to sell information to political parties. Companies exist to make money. Nothing inherently wrong with this, however something is very wrong with basically saying if you don’t help them make money you cannot access all of SL.
Linden Labs’ PR person, Robin Linden, has refused to reveal the details of the rush through contract with Integrity/Aristotle, refuses to address the identity theft risks, or to confirm or deny if Linden Labs or Integrity are reserving the rights to sell the data they cull from their residents, who are acknowledged to be the cream of the crop user base, with the average expenditures of appoximately $50-100 USD per month. Linden Labs has a Teen Grid for the children, another rich source of talent, that most feel that is accommodation enough, but would like to see Linden Labs return to requiring all accounts use a credit card to be a residents and discontinuing free accounts that have made it infinitely easier for minors to come into the Main Grid undetected.
As one resident of Second Life put it so well on the grass roots URL petition against this proposed age verification:
*****http://yanai.blackmage.org/sky2/?page_id=2543
‘Because they are specially singling out the adult areas many areas will die as a result, and such content will be pushed to the fringes of “society” just as it is in first life. Except… it’s supposed to be different, a “life simulator”, designed so that you can make alternate choices in a safe and relatively similar environment, but different in certain key ways and this is one of them. Clearly if this is removed this will no longer be the case. Note, not only is this an obvious moneymaking move but it is clearly part of their intended plan to make it more commercialized and mainstream so that they can better market to business where the real money is. After all, it simply wouldn’t do to go making some online ad, only to accidentally catch some kinky sex in the background and deal with the media backlash that stems from feeding on negativity in much the same manner leeches feed on blood. Ok, I feel better now. Back on track. Ahem.
Note also, sweeping the sex under the rug doesn’t make it go away, nothing stopping someone from standing in a PG sim and playing in IMs, although at this point they’d be better served by a less memory intensive client such as AIM/Yahoo/MSN. In essence it stops the erotic poses, and that’s about it. What it also does is put a lot of people out of work as the cybersex industry is quite large, and quite frankly I find it dubious they aren’t instead trying to jump into this, although it’s probably because if LL started making scripted penises or whatever it would be regarded as an official endorsement, and they’d again have to deal with the media backlash.’
And as another resident pointed out:
‘Yes, your social is out there already on databases, but usually for heavily guarded venues. This is going to a source that we’d be terribly naive to think won’t sell our data, especially seeing everyone involved is refusing to answer that question.
My Driver License is a gate to my Social and in 16 states they are one in the same.
My credit cards have built in protection from fraud. My Driver’s License nor my social have such protection and can ruin a person’s credit for years or even pernamently if the source of the fraud is not caught and held responsible, which rarely happens.’
A reasonable solution has been offered up and sent to each and ever “Linden employee listed in the search box of Second Life, in hopes one of them can get it to someone of importance to reconsider this decision.
‘Have notaries verify id info … not keep anything mind you, just eye ball it and say, “Yes, that’s you!” and put their stamp of approval on a paper document and digital verification database set up for LL on their web site. Would be super easy to get up and running actually. Take about a week and it could be ready to accept number if they get someone who knows what they are doing - 3 weeks at most. The Notary could enter their approval number into a LL database that they apply for directly through LL or using their Tax ID number or notary certification number - whichever was safer for them to use, along with a special verification ID number LL uses to tag our accounts.
It would work for everyone because everyone has a notary and it’s very inexpensive.’
Since all this dove tails in with the ACLU’s struggle to protect our privacy and identification from our own government, we felt you would be the best source for help with our problem. We hope we can count on the last protection of our freedom of speech and privacy rights to come to our aid and possibly get an injunction to stop Linden Labs’ actions until all reasonable alternatives have been explored.
Comment by Tessa Harrington — May 16, 2007 @ 1:11 am
I will not re-verify my age. I have already, and agree to the TOS everytime I log into SL. I will not pay SL to verify I am over 18, nor will I give them information that could lead to identity theft. Anyone remember our password and CC info being compromised a few months ago? Age Verification will not prevent underage roleplay between two consenting adults or even child pornography. It is the local police division’s job to track down these people. They will only find other ways to do this ie. the Web. Limit my access and imagination and I will limit your funds, LL.
Comment by Ryanna Enfield — May 16, 2007 @ 1:30 am
I will not be providing my SS, passport and anything else to anyone for a simple game, =P
Comment by Fia Tatsu — May 16, 2007 @ 2:27 am
This is insane. Adult website after adult website is being shut down. This country is loosing every outlet for free speech as our rights are being trampled on in the name of family values. i say its time we fight back and threaten to boycott SL if this goes into effect. Without the adult portion of SL, all Second Life is a bunch of avatars sitting around. There is nothing immoral or wrong about sex or nudity. Its a few zealot wackos ruining it for all the rest of us.
-erica ~c
Comment by sissy sub erica — May 16, 2007 @ 2:55 am
Keep it free and open, man!
Comment by Suave Daviau — May 16, 2007 @ 3:20 am
First of all they should care about the kids in RL
Comment by magnus Messmer — May 16, 2007 @ 4:37 am
Freedom is a fight
Comment by Gee Canaille — May 16, 2007 @ 4:41 am
No freakin’ way. Keep yer mitts outta my rights!
Comment by rev — May 16, 2007 @ 5:11 am
While I agree it is important to keep kids out of the adult grid, I like to keep rl and sl apart. The system works as is.
Comment by Danika Huet — May 16, 2007 @ 6:38 am
SL is basically a game. I’m not aware of any other game that requires personally identifying documents to play it? will i be handing this information over to a strange company outside my borders? Well, I get enough crap in the post/email and enough telephone calls at meal times already so, no, I don’t want to invite a whole new continent to join that party!
Comment by Cargo Tomsen — May 16, 2007 @ 7:12 am
Just a note about age verificaion. Being over 18 by quite a bit, I was at TARGET the other day buying a video game- 2 actually among other things. When the older lady asked for an Id-like I thought she was joking- I opened my wallet and showed it to her. She said that I needed to take it out of my wallet sh that she could scan it. It was policy. I almost went ballistic. I said “please, do I really look under 18?” She said- “It’s company policy”. Like I need anyone you run my Id through a scanner. If I was buying condoms or anotherform of birth control- would they care how old I was. It’s a real messed up world we live in. Age verification is fine- But I make over 100k a year- and I don’t need a person thinking that they are in a position of superiority enforcing stupid rules and “their policies” on me. I can spend my money elsewhere.The same applies here.No one has any right to my personal information other than whomever I willingly offer it to. I have had about enough of the bs with the changes, crashes,grid closures and downtime. For a “free” open game- it’s getting like anything else. Any way to charge more for less. And even registered members will have to pay a “nominal” fee to register with a “3rd party” vrification service. Sounds like a major kickback- or LL will open their own company to verify at a nominal fee. About ready to just call it quits and go back to first life till things are different. Good luck guys- hope it all pans out.
Comment by ryan lowe — May 16, 2007 @ 8:06 am
That’s an Aye from me. No intrusive age verification!
Comment by ChazFox — May 16, 2007 @ 8:55 am
Maladomini: Pride. Perfection. Intrigue. Arrogance. This is a place in which not one word
uttered goes unnoticed. Big Brother is everywhere because Big Brother knows how you
should live your life. There is an eternal buzzing as everything you do is reported to those in command,
those with the perfect plans for everyone’s lives.
Hmmm…
Comment by Lord of the Seventh — May 16, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
Pease do not insult our intelligence LL by saying age verification will stop child porn or ageplay, this is not AGE verification it is IDENTITY verification, which is far more sinister.
In Britain we are daily bombarded by government information warning about the dangers of ID theft and being urged to shred all documents and never divulge any personal information.
Also NI Numbers in this country and I suspect in others are issued at age 16 when people leave school so how would this verify age?
I feel this is a thinnly disguised ruse to make money for LL and other corporate entities masquerading as a moral crusade.
LL’s outrage at the recent child porn allegations is also laughable, like they don’t know about ageplay? they should spend more time policing SL inworld before making the majority pay for the sins of the few.
Comment by Pit Gallacher — May 16, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
totaly agains the new age verification for an exellent reason there is already a teen grid…so what if in the teen gris young players are role playing adults?
finaly i hope seriously that this 1984 decret will not take effect or a lot of pple who are making sl alive will take the train and if it s the case i hope to be the pilot :p
Comment by Saajuk — May 16, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
Linden Labs has no customer service anymore, and now they want to add insult to injury just because a few adults enjoy engaging in fantasy ageplay? What’s next? Are they going to ban people for engaging in fantasy BDSM, Gor, prostitution, furries (i.e. beastiality)? Come on! Everyone in their right mind understands that a game is just a game. It’s fantasy, not real life. Get a grip, LL. And get some customer service, for crying out loud!!!
Comment by Roman — May 16, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
Just out of curiosity, has anyone looked for/found/heard of an SL alternative in the works somewhere without these idios at LL trying to squeeze every drop of blood from the turnip? Be nice to know what else is available when SL takes the big dive.
Comment by hope Antonelli — May 16, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
This rule sucks.. Why should we be punished for some stupid kids who do things which are illegal?
In about every chatbox there are underage kids scroling around.. HORNY GIRLS IM ME.. WHO LIKES TO SEE ME JERK ON THE WEBCAM… then why is such a fuss made about a stupid videogame?? Its a game damn it.. no real sex happens.. no webcams.. just some silly toony avatars pretending to fuck..
Get a life!
This linden lab moral is so fake.. they let kids enter the grid, and now all of a sudden because of the public view they want our personal information? Yeah sure.. they never cared about the kids anyway. Linden Labs sucks and I hope a new secondlife by another company will pop up soon!
Comment by Linda — May 16, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
Demanding that we provide personal information to sl will not stop a determined underaged individual from entering restricted area. If they are using bogus info to begin with, you can be assured, they have access to the ss # of the parent’s cc they are using. We have reported underaged individuals who wander into our sim and expect everyone else to do so as well. No matter what sort of “security measures” are in place, there will be those that slip through. It should be up to the residents to police thier own sims and areas. Identity theft is an epidemic in the US and if the banks and government cannot provide protection against unethical individuals, how can sl think they can portect our personal information? I question the integrity of everyone I meet including sl helpers and staff…I will not trust my personal information to someone I do not know, there is no telling what sort of damage can be done to my credit history or reputation if such info becomes public. My two avs are intricate and important members of the rp sims of which I am a member, and not only would sl lose them, but hundreds of others who depend on my guidance and leadership ingame. I spend a great deal of rl money in sl: it is people like me and my friends who keep sl in the black.
Comment by Mystra Wind — May 16, 2007 @ 5:15 pm
Do the Nichael Jackson… Pack It Up And MOVE… Then maybe yall can concentrate on stabilizing this wobbly ish instead of fighting off the authorities and bending paying customers over backwards.
Comment by Lil Carducci — May 16, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
Do the Michael Jackson… Pack It Up And MOVE… Then maybe yall can concentrate on stabilizing this wobbly ish instead of fighting off the authorities and bending paying customers over backwards.
Comment by Lil Carducci — May 16, 2007 @ 6:52 pm
[QUOTE=Linden Blog]Tuesday, May 15th, 2007 at 3:27 PM PDT by: Jeska Linden
There have been some recent inquiries as to Second Life accounts that have been placed on hold even though the accounts have committed no Community Standards or Terms of Service violation. We assure you this is not the case. If you find that certain accounts have been locked out of logging in to Second Life and you believe you’ve have committed no violation, it’s probably because the account is in violation of Terms of Service section 2.1: You must establish an account to use Second Life, using true and accurate registration information.[/QUOTE]
Bravo!
Everyone gets one free account, and if you want an Alt, you should pay the fees. Theft of services is still theft.
The onus is on LL to ensure compliance with any TOS they wish to enforce.
In suspending these accounts, LL has exercised their right and responsibility to ensure compliance with the Second Life(C)(TM) Terms of Service.
Having done so, Linden Labs has acknowledged their responsibilities regarding the control of access to the service they provide.
Linden Labs has the legal, moral and ethical right and responsibility to control access to the systems and content, both hardware and software,which comprise the Second Life (C)(TM) experience.
They have the right to [B]reasonably[/B] verify compliance with their Terms Of Service statement before providing that service, and the right to modify those terms, but ensuring ongoing compliance with the click-wrapped contract is the responsibility of Linden Labs as the sole arbiter and provider of that experience.
I’ve paid for my ticket already; at the gate, and at several dozen booths on the midway of this circus, I’ve seen the monkeys, freaks, and elephants, ridden the ferris wheel, and generally had a marvelous time…now some clowns are demanding
compliance with ridiculously intrusive new policies, or we get tossed out of the carnival.
Honk the clowns rubber nose, laugh at him, and get back in the ride.
BB
Comment by BeeBee Brouwer — May 16, 2007 @ 7:00 pm
There’s been far too little information given about how and why this ID verification will be implemented. LL should know better than to treat paying customers this way. Without us, they will no longer have a business.
Comment by Diricial Dagger — May 16, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Stupid idea, these great places arent hurting anyone in SL so why should LL do this, >
Comment by Nayytin Broome — May 16, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
Even if we agree to Age Verification it is nor garaunteed that ALL our Alts will be allowed, LL have not yet decided how many Alts per account can be allowed. So if you have any Alts they may not be allowed in Mature sites regardless of age.
Comment by Akiko Aska — May 16, 2007 @ 10:19 pm
Signing the petition. I don’t feel safe giving out this information.
Comment by Alyx Stoklitsky — May 16, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
Even if I agree to hand over, no wait, PAY! Linden Labs to prove my age I won’t be able to. My Pasport ran out last Xmas and I have no plans to go abroad this year. I do not drive and never have done and even if I did in my country a 16 year old can hold a license so that leaves my trusty credit card and PayPal account, both of which LL have on file already but according to LL its not good enough. So it’s good enough for hardcore porn sites but not an adult game? My only option then is to fork out £80 odd pounds or whatever the rediculous price of a new passport is these days and Pay LL my hard earned Lindens for the privilage of handing over my details.
Here’s some questions I want LL to answer..
I bought land earlier this year on a mature sim so will I get banned from my land? Will LL reimburse my monthly tiers for everyday I can’t access MY land? And how will I be able to run my shops I have on more mature land? And whats stopping people on a PG sim disabling camera constraints and panning there cameras into the mature sim next door? And after LL have milked this cash cow and got all our details what’s stopping our details from getting stolen, how safe are they? And what’s stopping two more perverted adults who have verified (or not) their ages and acting out their sick fantasies and getting themselves media coverage again? And if they aren’t verified does that mean they will do it on a PG sim? I demand LL answer those questions.
Linden Labs ned a proper poilice presence on the grid, a vice squad even to root out the pervs and any minors that sneak on. Hell I hope LL are spending as much effort keeping adults of the kids grid. This whole thing is a farce and I for one will not put up with it.
End of rant.
Comment by Jay Prospero — May 17, 2007 @ 1:20 am
NO WAY!
LL should be ashamed of themselves turning a paedophile scandal into a money spinner.
>:(
Comment by Lidérc Dagger — May 17, 2007 @ 1:24 am
Age verification is fine with me, so long as they let us know who the third party is. As for charging us, I do not find that fair at all. THEY set
up a system that failed, why do WE the customers have to pay for it?
Comment by Al Rousselot — May 17, 2007 @ 1:50 am
this is outrageous i dont like this at all this should be banned
only 21 signatures since yesterday we need more people
how mahy signatures do we need
Comment by willum282 schertzinger — May 17, 2007 @ 2:39 am
I agree. My initial registeration should be enough. Any such requirement and its goodbye for me.
Comment by mike andy — May 17, 2007 @ 3:29 am
I agree.
Comment by Jennifer Pertwee — May 17, 2007 @ 3:45 am
Signed, no need to have to post personal info tis but a place to come and relax and the trust involved in giving out such details is far to high. Thus said forget about implementing it
Comment by Jammie — May 17, 2007 @ 4:33 am
Seams a bit of invasion of privacy of residents this is SL not RL remember!
Comment by Zwan Yifu — May 17, 2007 @ 6:04 am
I hate age role play!…However in this way Linden Lab sells your secrets, sells your passions, sells yourself!
Comment by Gen Silvera — May 17, 2007 @ 7:28 am
the age verification will make secondlife non relevant, better platforms will rise.
Comment by Duncan Hax — May 17, 2007 @ 8:44 am
I agree. Current system is fine as it is.
Comment by Maria Schumann — May 17, 2007 @ 9:49 am
I do understand the need to check for age, but I think LL is going about it completely the wrong way.
Comment by Yuki Chevalier — May 17, 2007 @ 11:06 am
signed.
Comment by Jonathan Kazan — May 17, 2007 @ 12:39 pm
I agree…
Comment by Jake Nevadan — May 17, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
Aus Gründen des Jugendschutzes ist eine Altersüberprüfung sinnvoll.
Aus Gründen des Schutzes der Intimsphäre lehne ich eine Altersüberprüfung ab.
Comment by arne — May 17, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
its not right in the least
Comment by rini warburton — May 17, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
Signed
Comment by Bri — May 17, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
This is rediculous. There is no way in hell I’m handing over my Social Security Number. That is a complete invasion of privacy. They have our payment information and they want MORE?
Comment by Brawen Larsen — May 17, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
are they gone mad?
Comment by dice babii — May 17, 2007 @ 5:46 pm
stupid rules -.-
Comment by Kae — May 17, 2007 @ 7:35 pm
You’re right. Stop this rules. It doesn’t help against abuse, it’s only a new way to earn real Money!
Comment by Holden Halasy — May 17, 2007 @ 8:00 pm
yeah they are just seeing a new way to make money……have to keep some fun free not everyone on sl is a motivated money whore
Comment by weelarvis cortes — May 17, 2007 @ 8:44 pm
Existing regular age verification is enough!
Comment by Gettin Wilder — May 17, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
bunch of hypocrits!
Comment by Daan Welles — May 17, 2007 @ 11:42 pm
This form of verification is just their way of saying oh look congress or capitol hill I am covering my ass! It sucks and I do not approve of such forms of censorship!!
Lestat
Comment by Lestat — May 18, 2007 @ 12:40 am
Sigh :(
Troubling time but ..Second Life has its troubles anyway. Age Verification and Account Verification are NOT 100% safe methods to keep troubles out and worse! They will stop people out of EUROPE to play!
Comment by Jovera Alonzo — May 18, 2007 @ 1:21 am
Lexi Oppewall is outraged.
Comment by Lexi Oppewall — May 18, 2007 @ 2:02 am
Lexi Oppewall is outraged.
Comment by Lexi — May 18, 2007 @ 2:03 am
Another way to cash in is all
Comment by Megan — May 18, 2007 @ 2:07 am
I think the system may have it’s upsides… but how many paying residents are going to be subject to insufficant forms of identification… I.e. no passport or driving licence.
How on earth are linden labs going to implement a global verification system across many countries using 3rd party verification??? Have you dealt with 3rd party companies acting on the behalf of a major service? It is proven it doesn’t work… that’s why here in England companies have stopped outsourcing and bringing services locally.
Unless Linden labs have muliple 3rd party companies in different countries which know the local forms of identification, this will not work.
The charging aspect also outrages me as I put enough of my hard earned money into the Lindex every month.
I supose it’s a good reality simulator… You work hard, then the people in charge want a piece of you cake.
Well i’ve had my rant I hope other people see this the way I do.
Just remember if they can’t sort the lag out how are they going deal with a 3rd party company… the system will be extremly flawed…
The end is nigh…
Shez.
Comment by Shez — May 18, 2007 @ 2:17 am
Is LL seriously trying to tell us they think there are 17 year olds out, not smart enough to find a way around this? If anything, it will just give them more incentive to get on. To prove it can be done. And who’s ass are they really concerned about protecting? I’m 28. If this goes through, I’m gone.
Comment by Brenda Bathgate — May 18, 2007 @ 2:27 am
No doubt. This is the worst attempt to cover up a marketing data hunt ever. You know why they do this? Not because they have a problem with the system, but because the personal data on 6 million residents would be worth tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands when compiled and sold to other companies. Screw you Linden! We may be few now, but it WILL hurt your pocket book when you loose thousands of members and your new membership rates drop.
Comment by Rage Brennon — May 18, 2007 @ 8:54 am
Agreed!
Comment by Nadramia Monstre — May 18, 2007 @ 10:45 am
Hmm yeah I really dont think it is wise what Linden labs are doing….
Comment by Nadramia Monstre — May 18, 2007 @ 10:47 am
LL, no…just no
Comment by Joey — May 18, 2007 @ 11:30 am
Sorry M. Linden, we will find other networks to enjoy Sims world discuss and exchange if you continue to ask for our credit card number with this kind of joke…
Comment by Harvey Noel — May 18, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
Martin Gonzales
Comment by Martin Gonzales — May 18, 2007 @ 1:09 pm
hmph.
Comment by Cuirous Tracy — May 18, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
I have several thoughts on this intrusion. My alts have jobs here they provided the nec. payment info I am an adult and do not want to pay for 3 accounts. I have money in all account. For the age play and all that. It’s absolutely ridiculous, pixels on a screen this is not *real* abuse or anything like that. A few perverts ruin it for a few as usual! I don’t want to divulge any more information then they have already. After the first password stealer attack we had I am leery of providing them with more information then they have already. This might be the end of me on sl.
Comment by shocking beeper — May 18, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
Free accounts have damaged secondlife too much.
90% of original players have left secondlife due to the chaos caused by these unverified accounts.
Comment by Mike R. — May 18, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
I fully agree!
Comment by Human Halderman — May 18, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Sorry, you can’t ask for SS numbers. They don’t even do that for hard core porn sites. Do this and its bye bye for me.
Comment by Harry Cohen — May 18, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
It’s already difficult enough to play SL with everything LL has broken recently. Making us pay to tell people our personal information is adding insult to injury.
Comment by Toxius — May 18, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
signed! ~as often as LL gets hacked, this is a BAD idea.
Comment by Aiwait Shi — May 18, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
signed!
Comment by Riddle Ivory — May 18, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
I dont need a parent or a big brother stop trying to look over my shoulder.
Comment by Willa Wilber — May 18, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
signed
Comment by Alsven Susanti — May 18, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
I have allways been an advocate for free speech and expression. We all know that the Age Verification Issue is merely a thinly veiled cover for the true problem that the FBI and the EU would like to be able to directly identify perps who commit any number of present or future “cybercrimes”. Linden Labs has probably been told and are probably under threat that if they dont comply then Linden Labs will be culpable and not acting to reveal identity in the threat makes them party to the grievance. I just wish they would tell the truth in instead of pretending we are stupid.
Comment by Osiris Goff — May 18, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
I joined Second Life to meet new people and have a good time. I don’t want anybody having any personally identifiable information about me that could lead to identity theft!
Comment by Chief Ohtobide — May 18, 2007 @ 6:12 pm
Why is it suddenly necessary for a whole new layer of protection so late in the proverbial game? If this was really so necessary it should’ve been started up when the population was still growing, at about two million — not now, when it’s booming at seven million. Credit card information has been working fine, and that’s enough identification in and of itself — Unverifieds have to find their own ways to get money the freeloader way, and that’s their choice and their problem — but now the rest of the community is going to be thrown in with their lot too? Why is this? Is there a legitimate reason why people who have already been verified by their own free will using their own credit card, have to now also submit their driver’s license, or their social security number, or their personal identification card information? This makes no sense to me at all. It’s just another example in my mind of how the Lindens always go for the idealistic crusade as opposed to the practical application approach to making changes and adding content external and internal. If it looks good and sounds good and has good intentions then for all they care it’s fine, and the press will love it too, but as for the people in-world who have to deal with the repercussions of every decision the Lindens make, it’s Hell on e-Terra. This is only the beginning of the Linden Labs’ calculated but blind commercial suicide, the beginning of the end for their much-hyped and much-praised fantasy world; unless they change their mind and stop what they are about to do. Signed, Rena Kuu.
Comment by Rena Kuu — May 18, 2007 @ 6:12 pm
Seems way OTT to me, lindens are gonna shoot themselves in the foot with this one.
Comment by Edward Mokeev — May 18, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
I already gave my credit card information in the past and used it a couple times to buy L$, with that in mind, this theoretical age verification system is absurd. If credit cards can be used to verify age, why try to go for more, sensitive information (as if credit cards aren’t sensitive already). I won’t take part in SL if this passes theoretical stages.
Comment by Kejento Drake — May 18, 2007 @ 8:56 pm
I don’t give them my address…
Comment by Doris Haller — May 18, 2007 @ 11:42 pm
What’s the purpose of taking even more of my personal ID info, other than to make SL somehow more acceptable to prudish people living in Europe or North America and to the governments of non-western countries? Why aren’t my credit card and other info I gave at the beginning enough? I play SL because I enjoy being anonymous . . . what reason can there be for an avatar, or for Alts, if it isn’t to anonymously pretend to be someone you aren’t in real life? This creeping intrusion by conservative elements, and the Lindens’ bending to it, will soon drive me out of SL. If that’s what they want, then they should just tell us all now and save us many months’ worth of fees and tier payments.
Comment by Hoonose Howe — May 19, 2007 @ 2:22 am
No way!!
Comment by Isis Glushenko — May 19, 2007 @ 2:35 am
Don’t want them to have my info.
Comment by khris slade — May 19, 2007 @ 12:35 pm
Id rather have my info to myself please…?
Comment by Kaizen Nakamura — May 19, 2007 @ 3:47 pm
Signed.
Comment by Roc Streeter — May 19, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
Age verification is perhaps a good idea, but having to pay for it is not! Just like sex really!
Comment by Salian Suen — May 19, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
…
Comment by grooshka — May 19, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
still waiting to hear of any alternatives to SL around, in development or even rumored. This just gets worse by the day
Comment by hope Antonelli — May 19, 2007 @ 5:38 pm
I don’t agr